Author Topic: not strictly warbow questions but....  (Read 4213 times)

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Offline stuckinthemud

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not strictly warbow questions but....
« on: September 14, 2016, 03:09:49 pm »
Evening all,

I've pulled a project down from the garage roof that I put to one side about this time last year - a holly heavy ELB-ish.  The mass calculator suggests its on course for 60# at 26".  Here we go; it's short - 68" ttt - its as tall as I am, so does it qualify as an ELB for length? Also it has water buffalo horn nocks and I have always fancied side-nocks but never been brave enough to try them. Am I right in thinking they are cut one on the left side and the other on the right so the string goes diagonally across the bow?  Are there any advantages/disadvantages to side nocks compared to the modern way of stringing a bow?

Thanks

Offline meanewood

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Re: not strictly warbow questions but....
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2016, 07:58:26 pm »
Good question about the side nock thing.

Maybe it's time to talk about it again because most people making warbows are replicating the nocking method of the 'Mary Rose' bows.
I use horn and self side nocks on all my bows except  my X13 'replicas'.

If you have ever used a bowyers knot on a side nock you would see how suited they are.

The fact that there was quite a bit of variation in the length of the bows recovered from the 'Mary Rose' would suggest that replacement bow strings would be long enough to suit all the bows and the adjustable bowyers knot enables you to get the correct length and make fine adjustments by twisting the string.

It's obvious that what people think was used on the upper limb is not so clear.

Three methods 'work' as far as I can tell.
1- You can use a bowyers knot again but it's not easy to loosen it sufficiently to slide down the limb, especially on a heavy bow!

2-It sounds like many people are using a fixed loop, as you would with a modern nock and it's easy to get on and off.
I started with this method but had many horn nocks break because of the force of the string on the lip of the nock. One instance ruined one of my favourite bows!. It just didn't make sense to use a side nock if you want a fixed loop!

3- That's when I started using a method that combines the best attributes of both a sliding knot and a fixed loop.

Make a small loop in the string about the circumference of a pencil, then pass the other end of the string through the loop to form a running loop.
Now one side of the running loop fits nicely with a side nock and the other bulky side is clear of the slot just like a bowyers knot does!
The loop tightens under tension, relieving the stress on the lip of the slot!
When it comes to destringing, the loop opens up far easier than a bowyers knot does!

Interestingly, this system works very well on the shamfer ed tip that is evident on bow X13.
All the more reason to think, that this may have been the system in use at the time?
 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 11:37:45 pm by meanewood »

Offline WillS

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Re: not strictly warbow questions but....
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2016, 12:07:44 pm »
Fixed loops work fine with sidenocks, provided the loop itself is small enough.  If you make them as you would a normal fixed loop it will sit too low in the nock and the forces will act downwards against the lip, instead of around the nock itself.

A running loop works well, but is very tricky to unbraced with particularly heavy bows (130lb and up) in my experience, especially after some shooting when they've bedded themselves in tightly.

There are many other methods of fixing strings that people tend to ignore, and lots can be seen on African and Amazonian type bows, usually without any nocks or grooves at all.

One excellent method is similar to a running loop, but it's folded one more time and pulled through to create an actual knot which sits very tightly into a sidenock but doesn't self-tighten so is easier to unbrace.

Of course, that then poses the question - how were they braced?  If using a stringer most methods work but only a small amount of the MR bows had those second grooves.  I've seen people brace 150lb bows using just a single knee, a twist of the back or the step through method with ease, and you can very simply lift the loop ABOVE the nock and off the bow entirely doing this.  There's no reason to believe the string was kept on the bow as with Victorian style longbows. 

If both ends are the fixed knot loop described above, it would be easy to fit one end, bend the bow by hand and fit the other loop over the top of the top nock instead of trying to slide a loop upwards along the limb.

Offline WillS

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Re: not strictly warbow questions but....
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2016, 12:10:14 pm »
As to the question - cut them any side you want.  As long as they're opposite it doesn't matter.  I've chosen sides depending on stave shape sometimes.

If the loops are tight enough there shouldn't be any discernible diagonal line of the string, as both loops should end more or less in the middle of each nock.

Once they're on and the bow is braced, it's impossible to tell the difference between modern/Victorian style nocks when shooting.

Offline meanewood

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Re: not strictly warbow questions but....
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2016, 06:05:02 pm »
Hi Will

Interesting that you mention the use of a bow stringer.
I no longer cut a second slot on self side nocks or horn ones. My stringer also has a running loop and does not need a slot.
The tapering of the horn or bow tip ensures the stringer wont slip down and interfere with the single slot!

What Ive found useful with heavy bows is too rotate the loop, which breaks the tightness because the bulk of the loop divergence lifts it from the slot.
Hope that makes sense!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 11:32:30 pm by meanewood »

Offline WillS

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Re: not strictly warbow questions but....
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2016, 07:38:38 pm »
That's interesting!  I'll need to try that.  I've never liked the look of MR sidenocks with double loops. 

Not using a stringer at all has a number of benefits of course!

Offline FilipT

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Re: not strictly warbow questions but....
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 04:37:17 am »
What are benefits of not using the stringer and can you string a 150# bow with stepping through method?

Offline WillS

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Re: not strictly warbow questions but....
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 05:48:37 am »
Means you don't need to carry one with you, you can unbrace the bow by taking the string off the bow entirely so you don't need to slide the loop down the bow etc.

With the right technique you can brace pretty much any weight with the step through method, or using your knee, or others.