Persimmon wood

[Red Arrow]

I'm a beginner at making my own bows. I'm currently working on an self bow made from an oak board from Lowe's but I really want to make bows from staves I harvest myself. I have several acres of pine, oak, and poplar so I can cut my own oak staves, possibly even ERC from adjoining properties in the woods. But, I have been asked to cut down a persimmon tree from another property nearby. Has anyone here ever used persimmon wood to make a self bow? Would it be a good wood to use?

[Pappy]

Yes it make a fine bow, just watch out for the knots, they usually go deep with lots of bad wood around them, also they tend to be propelled up the log so watch for that as you split it out. Usually the first log out of the tree will be the straightest.
 Pappy

[Red Arrow]

Thanks Pappy.

The tree I've been asked to cut down is about 50 feet high with a 15-20 foot mostly straight trunk at the bottom with at least 1 foot diameter. Of course those are just guesstimations from looking at it. But it is relatively straight at the bottom with the 1st branch at least 12-15 feet up. The lady who wants it cut down doesn't want to pay anything though but I thought it might still be worth it If I can get some good bow staves out of it, maybe a couple drum rims, and a bunch of fire wood.

[gfugal]

According to the data about its properties, it should be a great wood! but have never worked with it before. It should be stiff but flexible, and good with compression endurance.

[bradsmith2010]

in my experience,, over build the bow a bit,, mine took more set than I was expecting, I think if I had made it longer and wider,,, it would have been better design,, it did shoot well,

[Limbit]

Persimmon is in the ebony family and like many ebony species, they make excellent bow wood. If you are lucky, since that tree is so big you might even have some black heartwood in there. Persimmon is odd in that it is almost exclusively sapwood with little to no heartwood present. Older trees ought to have some heart wood. Not that the heartwood is a better bow material, but you can make a cool heart-wood/sap-wood contrast bow if it is in there. It rots quite easily and twists a lot during seasoning, so watch for that. If the landlady isn't paying you and you can stave out the tree into some good straight staves, you should be able to sell them since the wood is actually a quite usable bow wood. Just a thought. Also, the wood tends to be weaker in tension than compression, so be sure your bow is long to avoid an explosion! I don't think width is an issue as a lot of people seem to reference it as a usable ELB material. Could be wrong on that though.

[Red Arrow]

Thanks for the info Limbit. I had the same idea about selling or trading some of the staves.

[Selfbowman]

Brad I had the same result. I don't remember the design on mine but probably 66-68 length, 1-3/4 from fade to mid limb. A lot is about the tree it's self and densedy. My experience was it did not com pair to Osage even though the bowyers bible says 82 for Osage and 78-80 for persimmon on densedy.
It's a good wood though. Arvin

[Morgan]

Red Arrow, I'd try it for sure. In my opinion, At this point, try everything that will make a bow. Word of warning though, some trees look perfect, no sign of spiral to the bark, and then you drive a wedge and find that it twists like crazy. Or the inside is damaged by bugs, rot, etc. I've cut a bunch of trees that looked like they would split into nice staves and didn't get one out of them. Don't let it hold you back or give up though.

[Red Arrow]

Thanks Morgan. The only thing which ever holds me back is me. I don't worry the rest because that's life: some good, some not so good, but all a lesson for next time.

[Jim Davis]

,,,  Also, the wood tends to be weaker in tension than compression... .

Just for the record, nearly all wood is stronger in tension than compression--more than three times stronger. Black cherry  and red cedar are notable exceptions.

[DavidV]

The ratio of tension to compression for persimmon is about the same as hickory. It's very high in compression but the tension strength can overpower the belly and lead to chryshals. I cut my teeth on this wood but could never get the hang of it, it always seemed to bend easier than its strength should allow. Make the bows wider and flatter than you'd think.

[Red Arrow]

Okay. Thanks guys. Looks like I'm definitely cutting that tree down for her. Even if she doesn't want to pay for it, it'll still be worth a few days work.

[Hawkdancer]

That sounds like enough wood for a bunch of bows assuming it meets the straight grain, you may be able to get a lot of other things out of it like clubs for chasing little white balls around a pasture😀 .  Not sure why anyone would do that, though!  Seriously, I think it is still used to make heads for drivers, also pretty good for carving if I remember correctly.  Might find some arrow shafts in the crown also. 

[Red Arrow]

Same thing I was thinking. Plus, I'll get a lot of wood for the stove if it smells alright.