Author Topic: [Tillering Finished!!!] Well, here goes nothing! (First build)  (Read 35996 times)

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Offline loon

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2017, 05:30:01 pm »
Nice!
my plans are a red oak pyramid bow, 74" ttt, board is 2.5" wide .75" thick (a 3x1?), 40#@32". Hopefully I could buy some industrial hemp fiber for not too much... for backing. My board isn't as nice as yours
So far it's looking good though, taking a lot of elbow grease to rough it but the shinto rasp works fairly well. For the first 4 minutes i was going perpendicular to the grain and it was making a ton of noise and not taking a ton of wood, then i remembered going with the grain is the right method and it become much easier.
I didn't even know that... haha... wow. Thanks.


So i got a tad carried away on one side and it has a clear kink in the taper. Here you can see photos of each limb with the side i rasped and the side that has yet to be rasped. One of them is a clean slope to the 1/2 top but the other side has a kink bend near my 15" mark and then continues the taper smoothly. Is the kink going to be an issue? should i taper both sides out to 16" to even the transition out?

Stay tuned for more noob-ey updates!

quoting to not take away from question due to new page
honestly, I'm also a noob... though I don't see how it'd hurt to taper to 16"
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 05:39:59 pm by loon »

Offline hobbyaccumulator

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2017, 05:32:19 pm »
close up on the kink on one side of one of the limbs

Glad to hear rasps do get clogged commonly, i was worried mine was defective or i wasn't doing it properly.

Offline loon

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2017, 08:13:07 pm »
this noob loon can't shut up, but no one else is replying so
was talking to someone else about a different design with 25" fades (outer limb width taper) instead of 15" or 16". I don't see how it wouldn't be fine if you haven't messed with the thickness of the board yet. Always leave extra material and be careful when approaching?.. ie in bubby's buildalong he says to not cut into the lines straight away, a sure way to get a kid's bow

I may be able to get some nice fast-flight type string material tomorrow (8125?), but I think it's pink haha

Offline hobbyaccumulator

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2017, 12:08:32 pm »
Good to know going a little further with the taper wont hurt. If worse comes to worse i will do that to smooth all limbs widths to be the same.

I was wondering if the kink is going to be a problem. Is having that stay in there going to make for a bad bow? Will that kink cause a hinge in the bow?

Offline willie

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2017, 01:14:14 pm »

the thickness taper is more critical in my estimation. I would try to find a  way to get it very consistent, leaving a little extra for final tillering

Quote
I was wondering if the kink is going to be a problem

leaving some extra width until after the thickness taper is established is often a good idea, especially towards the tips.

you can still have the design width by leaving extra opposite the "kink"
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 02:55:24 pm by willie »

Offline hobbyaccumulator

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2017, 04:32:42 pm »
I've decided to extend the taper but in order to work out the kink i needed to extend it to the handle, which doesnt seem like a huge issue, Sam Harper even says he has made bows this way extending the width taper to the handle.

So now all sides look good and it just has a much longer and shallower taper.

I'll just need to be extra careful with the thickness taper. And maybe start tillering with a thicker starting thickness so the draw strength doesn't suffer.

Pics to come!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 04:55:02 pm by hobbyaccumulator »

Offline hobbyaccumulator

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2017, 10:57:16 pm »
So i just finished roughing (phew that was a lot of work with the shinto rasp, definitely buying a hatchet or draw knife for the next one).

Here are some pics of the belly and side profiles

I tried bracing the bottom of the bow against my foot and holding the top with my hand and using the other handle to push the center out to get an idea of the stiffness and i was only able to displace the center about an inch, but i wasn't pushing my absolute hardest as i am scared i will break the bow.

I think the next step will be to build the tillering tree from the extra wood in my garage, and then i should back the bow to help prevent it from breaking then i think i will start tillering, or maybe i still need to take the limb thickness down a bit before i back it. I have no idea how hard i am supposed to need to push to get X amount of displacement.


A HUGE thank you to Eric Krewson for sending me a tillering gizmo for free! I am so grateful to this community for the all the help and kindness.

Time to trek on

Offline willie

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2017, 12:47:33 am »
Making the limbs taper from the handle out rather than starting the taper in the outer limbs will change the thickness taper you need to accomplish. I have not read through the tutorial at the other site, but generally speaking, by tapering the full limb, your thickness taper should be flatter than the previous design. Once you get the bow bending a bit on the tillering tree and post some pics of your progress, folks will be full of advice concerning where to make it bend more or less.

I find that floor tillering the traditional way is an acquired skill, so I would put a string on it fairly snug for length, without trying to bend or brace it at all. once the tips bend 3 or 4 inches with a weight hanging on the string (equal to the intended finished draw weight), you might start trying to flex it with in the floor tilller method, just to see the difference in methods and gain experience.

maybe you already have, but if you post the bow length and width and intended draw weight and length, folks will also be able to offer an educated guess if you really need to plan on a backing.

Offline hobbyaccumulator

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2017, 01:17:07 am »
@willie I roughed out  1/16" less  wood on the thickness than the tutorial to make up for the extra width taper. I was bending it just to see how it bends and and how much, it feels very very stiff but i still have no intuition for how much pressure a human should exert on the how and how it will react.

What is floor tillering? Is that with the tillering tree? or does that mean bending it against the ground?

the bow is 72" long and 3/4" thick before i add the riser, i dont know what the draw weight im going for but i would love to have it 45-55 lbs if possible, at around 28" i guess? Not sure what length is good.

Offline willie

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2017, 02:38:35 am »

floor tillering is like you were doing without the tiller tree

how wide is it at the widest? if you keep it 72" long, chances are you will not need to back it.

lots of good info on this site. I like to use a site specific google search sometimes....

Code: [Select]
floor tiller long string site: http://www.primitivearcher.com/
and most will advise to pick a number for a tillering goal, at least for the first few bows, as most tillering methods advise to never pull beyond your goal weight.


« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 01:25:13 pm by willie »

Offline hobbyaccumulator

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2017, 10:09:43 am »
Right now its 1.5" at its widest and 3/4" thickest (these are the dimensions of the wood at the handle which i have not taken any wood from). Once i add the riser block the handle will be approximaetly double thickness at the center of the handle.

Why do you think it doesn't need a backing because of it's length? Do long bows not need backing? I thought backing it helped prevent it from cracking during tillering.

My tillering goal would be 50# at 28" because i would like to hunt with this bow eventually, but i hear that getting red oak board bows to 50# is somewhat of a difficult task, so maybe i should should for less? maybe 45#?

Offline willie

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2017, 01:23:48 pm »
Some backings are structural like sinew and some are cosmetic like snakeskin. Some backings are more of a repair thing, and most except the first are just not primitive.

There are many features one can add to a basic bow design that make the building process more complicated, but if you goal is to acquire the basic bowbuilding/tillering skill with hand tools, then I would just keep the design simple and not plan to stress the wood too hard. getting a smooth bend will go a long way to making a nice shooter. The longer a bow is (relative to the draw length), the less stressed it will be. The width should constrain your draw weight expectations, as does the proportion of non-bending parts of the limb(s). Being a red oak board from Home Depot should temper your weight expectations some also.

If you want a 50# bow for hunting, I would get a stave of quality wood put aside drying, and use the red oak board to develop tillering skills with, and shoot for a more target type weight goal, without the need for backing.

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2017, 08:45:06 pm »
hobby, there are some buildalongs on my site with photos of the floor tillering process. Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline hobbyaccumulator

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2017, 11:01:07 pm »
So regarding tillering trees, how deep do i want the saddle to place the bow be? How do i know where to measure from? Do i measure the notches in the tree from the bottom of the saddle (effectively the highest point on the riser) or somewhere else?

Sam Harpers guide says 1.5" inches deep and measure from the top, but i am skeptical that that is standard.

Offline Onebowonder

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Re: Well, here goes nothing! (First build)
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2017, 04:34:53 pm »
Hob - You'll want to get a tool called a 'file card' if you plan to do much with a Shinto Rasp.  It's basically a short bristled brass wire brush.  A couple quick swipes and your Shinto is cleared and ready to use some more.  I find that wet wood is particularly notorious for clogging up a Shinto (I love mine btw...) - so you might want to make certain you are working with properly seasoned wood.

OneBow