Author Topic: wiggly shafts  (Read 561 times)

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Offline BowEd

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wiggly shafts
« on: August 30, 2017, 06:53:46 am »
Hitting the target with a wiggly shaft.This is something that drives my fellow FG friends shooting carbide arrows nuts.
Beadman
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline bjrogg

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 08:06:51 am »
The one I put together for a trade arrow this year is like a crankshaft Ed. I shot it a bunch this summer, I picked it up Sunday and let her fly a couple times. Perfect bullseye both shots. I handed it to my buddy and he couldn't believe it. I really kinda hate to give it up, it's perfectly tuned to my bow and has a pretty sweet stone point on it now to. I better send it out pertty soon or build another.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline Pat B

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 10:15:34 am »
I love making and shooting crooked arrows and seeing the FG guy's reactions when at the practice butt. If tuned properly they fly as well as any other arrow. I wouldn't hunt with one because it would impede penetration but at the practice butt they are fun.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Online DC

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 12:23:00 pm »
I'm missing something here. I always thought that a few wiggles couldn't hurt but one day I decided to get one of my boo arrows as straight as I could. I chucked it up in my metal lathe and worked my way down two inches as a time, straightening as I went. I ended up with a very straight true arrow. I shot like a dream. I went through the same process with another half dozen and using those arrows my "groups" shrank considerably. I became an advocate for straight arrows but I always remembered you guys saying it ain't all that important. You've mentioned something about spinning(not spining ;)) it between two fingers.Maybe someone could enlighten me a bit on that. Making crooked arrows is a lot easier than making straight ones  :D
Vancouver Island

Offline Pat B

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 02:01:53 pm »
DC, making crooked arrows is a lot harder than making straight ones. The balance in the crooks has to be just right and the nock and point have to be in line or they won't fly well. That said, a well tuned crooked arrow can fly as well as a straight one.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline bjrogg

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2017, 02:05:44 pm »
The ends have to be true to each other DC. If the first 6" or so and everything in front of the fletching are true with each other. Like a crank shaft in a engine they can shoot excellent yet. I think it probably helps to shoot instinctive. Sighting down a kinky arrow probably won't help your groups either.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Online DC

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2017, 03:44:22 pm »
 "The nock and point have to be in line"  That's the phrase that confused me. It's only two points, how can they not be in line? You need at least three points to "line something up". It's hard not to put two things in a row. I understand the crankshaft analogy though. So if I draw a line from the nock to tip, any mass that's on one side of the line has to be balanced by equal mass on the other side and this has to be in 3D? So if I spun the arrow between centers and it didn't fly off and kill me, it should fly straight?
Vancouver Island

Offline bjrogg

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2017, 04:13:47 pm »
DC the ones I've had success with had two straight lines four dots if you will, all lined up perfectly. Except everything else in between the two middle dots is kinky one way and then back the other. Wish I knew how to draw on this thing.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Online DC

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 04:29:22 pm »
So, the fletching section has to point at the tip?
Vancouver Island

Offline bjrogg

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2017, 04:51:59 pm »
Yes and the tip section has to point at the fletched. Not just point at but be lined up "straight as a arrow"lol. At least on all the ones I've successfully built. Like pat said it is harder to make a good shooting kinky arrow than a naturally straight one.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline BowEd

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2017, 05:08:24 pm »
It does seem to work better with full length tapered type shafts and those most times are shoot shafts or bamboo.Bowed parallel width straight shafts don't shoot for me any good at all and need to be straightened.
DC....that ocean spray you got up there would fill the bill.
Beadman
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline BowEd

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2017, 03:12:42 pm »
I just finished up with a bunch of dogwoods.Around 2 dozen or so.These had been seasoning for over 2 years.Pre straightened when harvested.Most were straight finished but your occasional wiggly or cork screw one that shoots just as good as the straight ones yet.I'm able to get a bit more front of center balance on these fully tapered 5/16" to 11/32".Over 4" ahead of center with 145 grain field points on a 30" arrow TTT.About the best I can do besides footing the shafts.Less feather on the nock end too.4.25" long.Really like the way they fly and hit.They are heavy enough for my set up.Mass weight ranges were within reason.550 to 580 grains and more sometimes for a 50 to 55 spine arrow.
The hazel shoot shafts were good with enough spine too but a little less mass weight not as dense so they are thicker shafts.
They remind me of a javeline being thrown in the olympics the way they are set up.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 08:11:41 am by Beadman »
Beadman
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline TSA

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2017, 02:07:59 pm »
what i imagine when i think "lined up" is co-planar.
so imagine if you will a center line drawn down from the tip of the point to the back of the point- and the same done with the nock/fletch area- now those two short lines need to align properly.

Offline BowEd

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Re: wiggly shafts
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 08:09:00 am »
Yes I agree TSA.Just from trial and error and experience the worst area to have a bend or angle for me on a shaft is in those end areas.Especially the nock area.The middle can can do it's slight snaky thing and still be ok if the end areas are straight.Spining a wiggly arrow evenly is an excersize in frustration to see the results a person wants.Sometimes they just need to be fletched up/shot to see the results.All hand done slowly.
They are unique in a way but not an endangered species so to speak as many on the PA shoot these wiggly shafts with success.
This FOC thing is something I'm drawn into because of Dr. Ashbys' findings and a friend here who experiments with it using FG bows and carbides.For penetration reasons given that the flight is good.The percentages FOC of course are'nt near as dramatic or efficient with wood as I'm sure you undoubtedly know.I guess woody weights could be used too but I hav'nt gone there yet.
I would like to try to see if a 60 to 65 spine parallel spruce shaft or one suited in spine to be fully tapered losing spine down to 50 to 55 but front heavy with a heavy field point could resemble these FOC dogwoods I'm making.I expect spruces' ability to stay straight a high percentage of the time would be an asset too then.
Beadman
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed