Author Topic: TSA raffle drawing shafts.  (Read 1291 times)

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Offline JonW

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2017, 06:40:57 pm »
I was also a winner of the giveaway. Very nice product from TSA. Thanks Wayne!!

Offline TSA

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2017, 07:06:57 pm »
You are most welcome, my friend!! :D

Offline TSA

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2017, 07:10:02 pm »
You are correct Beadman, you wont get the same %ages as with the ultra light carbons (can we even use that word on here  ;) )
Putting a tail taper on the spruce will help a bit more too! ;D

Offline Pat B

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2017, 07:18:51 pm »
Wayne, how much rear taper do you add to your shafting. I tapered some poplar shafts I had and loved the way they shoot. I think I put 8" or 9" from 11/32" to 5/16".
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline TSA

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2017, 07:24:34 pm »
what i do, and this is not cast in stone- but just what works for me- i taper anywhere from 1/4 to max 1/3 of total shaft length after trimming to my personal length, also taking the 11/32 down to 5/16.
i have always gone by the rule that the middle third is what contributes mostly to the spine. just looking at how the shaft bends.

but i  am sure some technologically more advanced soul will have better input than my thumb suck ideas! :)

Offline Pat B

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2017, 07:30:50 pm »
Wayne, I'm a lot better with thumb suck ideas than technology.  :OK
Thanks.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline BowEd

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2017, 08:35:34 pm »
Yes a 10" nock taper on a 30" shaft would work good on spruce I think from doing it in the past with DF.This may be a primitive archery site but I see no reason to turn a blind eye to what works the best using the natural materials at hand.I'm able to get into the low teens tapering dogwoods which I like a lot,but getting into the upper teens or even 20% FOC would be even better.A friend of mine gets them close to 30% FOC with carbides.He loves it.
Beadman
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline bjrogg

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 04:02:19 am »
Love talking arrows with you guys. Wayne are you offering tappered shafts now? I did get some turned tappered shafts in a trade at Marshall Meet this year. They really made some sweet arrows. I think they said four winds on the box if I remember correctly. I also got some tappered shaft complete arrows from Marshall benefit auction that Larry from lost nation Archery donated. Really like them all.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline TSA

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 06:15:01 am »
yes, i will do tapered shafts for folk who would really like them. Currently, i do them manually with a jig much like the one i have seen Pat use, in fact he was the guy who put me onto it years ago!

However, we are in the process of building a fully automated tapering machine, that will do shafts automatically, fed from a hopper. That will really bring the costs down!

Online PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2017, 09:18:26 am »
I didn't win any shafts in the raffle, but did buy a few dozen from Wayne. The quality is outstanding and they are very matched. He even stamps with ink the grain weight and exact spine on each shaft. High quality - high end shafts, no doubt.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline TSA

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 07:40:15 pm »
yea Pearly, glad you like them!
thats a special spine tester we have, the shafts are loaded by hand to ensure correct grain orientation, the machine then weighs and spines automatically to 1 decimal place, then the onboard 'puter rounds it off, then automatically prints.

so the printing is on the side of the shaft that the weight would have hung from!
in other words the printing is on the outer curve of the test cycle- if that makes sense.
i could do a sketch if folk would prefer.

this just helps so that you know which way the spine was measured, and so in turn how you should orientate on the bow.

the printing should be away from the bow- if it really makes that much difference- dont know that it does.

heck, most of you guys shoot squiggley, knobby, crooked sticks out of yer bows- and seem to make them work!
 so I dont think spine orientation is really gonna make much difference (-S

Online PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2017, 05:58:03 am »
Wayne I was always one to put the nock perpendicular to the grain, that's what all the books told me to do. Well, I was given a bunch of arrows and the nocks are all over the board. They all fly wonderfully and the same from shot to shot. So, does it matter? I'm starting to think it doesn't. Perhaps that "rule" was adopted at the time of self nocks only and safety had to be considered. With a plastic nock I don't think its a safety issue no matter when the nock is turned in relation to the grain. The string cant split the arrows grain. 
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline TSA

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2017, 09:37:47 am »
Pearly, i am being overly technical in my nock placement advice.
primarily cos i am OCD about detail, ( my wife calls it something else- thats a lot less polite and makes reference to my posterior and my alimentary canal). (A)  ;D

the positioning of the nock- may certainly have its origins in self nock building, but i cant comment on that, even though it makes perfect sense.
however from the perspective of a plastic nock and the relative spine of the shaft, i believe it stems from wanting to put the stiffest portion of the shaft against the bow, which is usually the edge grain, as the resilience of the edge grain cut, should, in theory, allow it to recover from paradox marginally quicker.

wood grain shafts are usually tested on an edge grain side-, i guess this is an attempt to find the stiffer side of the shaft. as for the process above!
Also that an average shaft may produce different spines on different quadrants, and if you want a certain spine  shaft then its probably best to use that specific section of the shaft where that spine  was tested and noted.

so those are the ideas and the theories.
but here are some facts- just to confuse things

1. yes the majority of shafts do test stiffer across the edge grain of a shaft, but i have had many shafts that proved the opposite, by measuring stiffer on the flat grain than the edge grain, and have also had many shafts that measured the same all around the shaft, have also had some that were #5 lighter on the flat as opposed to the edge grain. i have even had shafts measure differently on the two opposite sides of the edge grain.

i guess there is so much going on in a trees life, so many stresses and strains, that we are totally oblivious of.


2. watch the video link below of wooden shafts being shot, its the best video i have ever seen.
now look at about 2.07 on the video-now this fascinates me, and blows all the theory out of the water, IMHO!
see after the shaft starts to rotate- after leaving the string, and it takes a few feet to get up to full rotation, so the shaft is spinning, but the shaft is still oscillating from side to side- not oscillating in all directions relative to the edge grain only.
that tells me that the energy generated during paradox seems to override everything else.
so does it really matter if the spines are different on different facets of the shaft, and how they are orientated on the bow, as they all come into play as soon as it starts to rotate???- I dunno  :o


i think the real point here, for me, is just shoot the damn arrows( i have to keep telling myself this). tune them to shoot out of the bow- paper tune every shaft- make sure it is tuned- treat every shaft as an individual- not as a homogenous whole. even carbon shafts vary this much, as does boo or cane, or shoots, or ali!!

and i think your"malaligned" nocks bear testament to this-we overly analyze( well i do) things- more archers out there, need to be more like folks on here- just build the gear and shoot it and enjoy it!!!

i think primitive man knew this, he built an arrow, if it worked he kept it, I am sure they all had varying foc's, spines, weights etc etc

i know i get overly technical with some of this stuff, it is a passion. However, if things are not working out, one has a technical perspective to try and figure out how to rectify it

besides what am i going to blame next time i miss a deer at 5 yards again, i know its not my shooting 'cos we all know thats perfect- probably was a 3 degree misalignment on my nock :laugh: :laugh:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96KGWC0PB6s

Offline willie

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2017, 02:04:15 pm »
Wayne
that video has some revealing arrow action, quite intriguing actually.
Quote
the shaft is spinning, but the shaft is still oscillating
is it actually spinning? it almost looks like it wants to reverse rotation direction as it flexes back and forth
might be the camera, but maybe not
Here is some different footage that shows what I mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjvV6Q6394

 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 12:37:55 pm by willie »

Offline TSA

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Re: TSA raffle drawing shafts.
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2017, 09:54:27 pm »
yup, its certainly the best video i have ever seen on the topic,
i do think there are a lot of other factors that come into play as the video progresses, as they use weaker and weaker spined shafts, we see an exaggerated paradox, weird oscillations and incredible flexion on impact!
i think the reason for the flu flu fletching, was both to slow the shafts down somewhat, but also for an enhanced visual effect.

i have watched that video so many, many times, and every time i see something new. :o
i will for sure be looking for your noted observations the next time i watch it , thank you Willie  :)