Author Topic: iron acetate staining test  (Read 727 times)

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Offline GlisGlis

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iron acetate staining test
« on: September 12, 2017, 02:18:36 am »
I finally made an iron acetate staining test (I wanted to do it for so long) to see how it react with various woods and how to use it to "age" my works
It is a well documented ancient technique (just google it)
I used fine steel wool left 2 days in white wine vinegar
all woods where rapidly given a single hand of iron acetate. 
The reaction takes place in a range from a few seconds to a couple minutes depending on the woods.

In the picture from top to bottom:
  - common cane (arundo donax)
  - hazel
  - ivy
  - platanus (dont know the exact species)
  - unknown (I suspect it is some kind of oak)
  - beech
  - unknown (this one got black in couple of seconds)

considerations
- i tough and hoped for a more warm and colored result. wood turn to a grayish black tint
- my solution may be too concentrated. I may try to dilute it but it could be difficult to obtain harmonised result
- I still have to try more woods and staining with tea before using acetate on woods that dont react

Did you ever used it to stain bows?

Offline stuckinthemud

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 04:20:49 am »
Not used it on a bow, works on apple and I've used it on an oak carving too.  My thoughts are that the more recent the wood was felled, the stronger the reaction - green oak goes really really black, oak felled a long while (low moisture content/kiln dried) goes a more grey colour.  Also, as it is absorbed into the grain, it is difficult to control so you can use it to colour in a large area but you can't use it to tint a small, precise section or easily get a sharp edge.

Incidentally, using bleach as well or instead of the vinegar is supposed to make a huge difference to the reaction - the end of this instractable is brilliant:
instructables.com/id/Steel-Wool-and-Vinegar-Wood-AgingEbonizingWeathe/

but make sure you read the conversation where an organic chemist joins in to explain everything, not the actual instructable itself (though it is useful)

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 04:45:22 am »
I tried aquafortis on osage and hickory, the results were similar to yours. One thing about these types of stains is you never know what the end result will be until you put finish on the wood. When I put aquafortis on a flintlock stock it looks muddy and nondescript, adding the finish makes the grain pop and look spectacular.

The process for aquafortis, ferric nitrate and iron nitrate is to apply the stain and let it dry which makes the wood look muddy and green, go over the stained area with a heat source to "blush the stain" to a brown color then apply the finish.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 04:57:59 am by Eric Krewson »

Offline stuckinthemud

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 05:49:50 am »
Thanks Eric, that's new to me, will give that a try next time!

Offline GlisGlis

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 05:58:19 am »
Thankyou Stuck
I read the instructable but i missed the comments
really interesting and a bit scary  ;D

Quote
go over the stained area with a heat source to "blush the stain" to a brown color then apply the finish.
this is a thing a could try on acetate too.
Do you expose to heat or to a true flame?

Offline stuckinthemud

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 06:10:43 am »
Thankyou Stuck
I read the instructable but i missed the comments
really interesting and a bit scary  ;D

it is a bit scary, but it made me chuckle all the same, probably best to leave the lid off...

Offline ksnow

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 06:16:33 am »
I use vinegarood (the iron and vinegar mix) as a leather stain.  It reacts with the tannin content in the leather (or wood).  Hence, more tanning, darker color.  Fresh oak, high in tannin, will turn almost black.  Dried out ash, low in tannin, turns into a weathered grey. Being acidic, it is best to wipe the piece down with a mild base solution (baking soda) when done, to neutralize the dye.

Kyle

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 02:07:03 pm »
I've used it. Works well.
I just put a nail in vinegar overnight and then applied the iron aerate to the bow with a cloth.
Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 03:54:20 pm »
I use a heat gun for the blush.

Here is an example; aquafortis applied and dry on the left, blushed on the right.



After one coat of stain;


Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 04:15:29 pm »
Aqua fortis is nitric acid which is a very strong acid. Caution.
Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 05:04:29 am »
No, George, aquafortis is dilute nitric acid with iron added, most folk cut the nitric acid anywhere from 3 to 6 to one with distilled water before they add the iron. Most regents are in the 60-70% range before dilution.

Producing aquafortis has to be done with caution, the fumes are highly toxic as well as corrosive. One adds iron to the acid until there is no more reaction and the acid is then depleted to almost nothing.  The resulting liquid is strained off for use as a stain.

You can buy ferric nitrate crystals dissolve them in water and use this solution to get exactly the same stain as aquafortis without the acid.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 09:51:59 am by Eric Krewson »

Offline GlisGlis

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 06:11:31 am »
tried the heat thing on acetate but there's not appreciable change
may have to try on better slats or plank though

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 10:09:59 am »
Eric,
I taught chemistry for many years.
Just do a search if you do not believe me.
Acids often have the scientific name and common name. Muriatic  acid is Hydrochloric acid (HCl) and etc.
I am just advising caution (safety glasses, safety apron and plastic gloves) and trying to be helpful that's all.

I don't want people handling nitric acid  thinking they are handling IronIII nitrate.

Here's the word equation:

Nitric acid + Iron III ---> Iron III nitrate + Hydrogen

...and the equation

6HNO3  + 2FeIII ---> 2Fe(N03)3 + 3H2

Also please note, if not enough Iron is added the reaction will not go to completion and you will still have some nitric acid left. Hydrogen gas is explosive. when a flame contacts it.

It is good to be challenged. I liked it when students engaged me.

Jawge


« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:23:15 am by George Tsoukalas »
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 07:34:32 pm »
I think we are on the same page George, caution and know a little bit about what you are doing and what you working with or stay away from it.

I have read dozens of threads on making and using aquafortis on the ALR site as that is what most of us use on figured maple. Painting the wood with tannic acid before using aquafortis is the latest trend, the results are spectacular.



I don't make the stuff, to easy to buy a small amount of the ready made stuff. I have regular aquafortis and lately a bottle of iron nitrate. The aquafortis is still a little on the acid side and needs to be neutralized or it will continue to darken the wood. The iron nitrate is benign and doesn't need to be neutralized.

Offline stuckinthemud

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Re: iron acetate staining test
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 12:01:48 am »
That looks astonishing. How much heat is involved in blushing? Would there be issues with heating the back of a bow?