Author Topic: Pyramid vs everything else  (Read 2313 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Stick Bender

  • Member
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2017, 06:19:11 am »
So which strait limb design launches heavy war or hunting arrows faster ? Parallel limb or Pyramid ?
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Selfbowman

  • Member
  • Posts: 577
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2017, 06:27:06 am »
A well made pyramid will out perform in my opinion .
The mass is the mass if fifty pounds or a hundred pounds.
Will the hundred pounder be wider ? Of course .
It's a hundred pounder. Arvin
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline bradsmith2010

  • Member
  • Posts: 2515
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2017, 08:39:35 am »
no it wont,,, most well made good design bows can shoot about the same,, or very close,, I am pretty sure I have heard Badger say this on many threads,, he is my voice of reason on this,, mainly because he has made more bows than most and tested the effeciency of many kinds of bows,, I am guessing a well made pyramid bow will shoot as good as any well made wood bow,, but I dont think it will out perform other designs, if it would it would be documented here on a daily basis, I dont see that,,
   also when the discussions about performance come up,, it would be nice to have some stats for comparison,, if you think a certain bow shoots harder,,,, then give an example,, example would be my pyramid bow shoots 180 fps with 10 gpp,,  etc etc etc,, and this is what I am basing my opinion on,,
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 08:48:37 am by bradsmith2010 »

Offline bushboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1829
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2017, 09:18:01 am »
I somehow doubt a pyramid would out do a mollegebet it a controlled test would be almost impossible.i could be wrong though?
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

Offline JW_Halverson

  • Member
  • Posts: 10454
    • Black Hills Raptor Center
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2017, 09:53:47 am »
It would be easier to bottle unicorn farts than get a real side by side test of two different bow designs.  Even two staves, taken side by side from the same tree will have sufficient variation in density, grain, elasticity, etc that the test would be inaccurate.  Secondly, there are so many variables virtually out of our control simply because any two sessions of tillering might produce two differing degrees of early strain causing micro-collapsing of wood cells on the belly and losing efficiency.

Every bow is a "study of one".  Every design is a series of tradeoffs between opposing options.  I have worked with eight different engineering students at the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology, and two of their professors trying to design a test that will prove or disprove that backing a piece of wood with thin rawhide will or will not prevent a bow limb from failing under tension and/or to what degree.  The best we could do is to do 500+ limbs from side by side staves and start to look for patterns to emerge.

I used to hate the pyramid design because it was (to my mind) inextricably linked to board bows and my snobbery would not allow for any lick of respect for board bows.  These days, I enjoy knocking out a board bow WITH pyramid limbs.  Anymore, for me it is no longer about the "best" bow, it's just about the "next" bow. (Caveat: I don't build bows to shoot, hate shooting bows because it is boring and I suck at it. When I build a bow, it is because I enjoy working wood in this manner. Your reasons for making a particular bow will necessarily be based on your reasons, and my opinions should carry little or no weight with you. Just be sure to post pics for the people like me that can't read. We like pretty pictures.)
Sawdust.  It's man glitter.

Offline bradsmith2010

  • Member
  • Posts: 2515
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2017, 10:01:09 am »
 :) (-P
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 10:09:27 am by bradsmith2010 »

Offline willie

  • Member
  • Posts: 1311
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2017, 10:09:19 am »
Quote
it would be nice to have some stats for comparison
I agree Brad, some of this discussion seems to be a bit on the theoretical side, or at least somewhat over-generalized.

Also, It would be nice to hear what some think about the possibility of different trade-offs that Eric mentioned. Light vs heavy GPP arrows? are there others?


Offline bushboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1829
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2017, 10:22:08 am »
Well stated brad and jw! I never make same bow twice because of the nature of the material.
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

Offline JW_Halverson

  • Member
  • Posts: 10454
    • Black Hills Raptor Center
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2017, 10:30:28 am »
Well stated brad and jw! I never make same bow twice because of the nature of the material.

Bows are like kids. You wanna turn out the best you can with each, but they will all have varying qualities out of your total control. Best to enjoy each for what it is.
Sawdust.  It's man glitter.

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 4402
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2017, 10:38:42 am »
I think we can establish that the pyramid design is for people who really don't like woodworking too much. ;)  It's the design that always has some  guy wondering why we don't just CNC a bunch out of boards and call it good.

Online DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 4879
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2017, 10:43:13 am »
I fully agree with JW. I was hoping that with the number of bowyers on here and all their experiences that some general consensus would have surfaced. I'm going to guess, because of the responses, that it don't really matter a lick. There seems to be a few things like that in this game.
Vancouver Island

Offline Selfbowman

  • Member
  • Posts: 577
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2017, 11:09:54 am »
Steve what bow design holds the current broad head record? And is it closer to a pyramid design with flipped tips and some reflex? Arvin  )F(
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline bushboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1829
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2017, 11:26:38 am »
Well a holmgaard is basically a pyramid design,not to discredit!
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

Offline Selfbowman

  • Member
  • Posts: 577
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2017, 11:38:08 am »
Pat I'm a builder not a cabinet man. Removing mass is a not a work of art. However tillering a bow to a fine shooting weapon is. Until you get to the last 10# of tiller you are just getting the mass out of the way. Arvin
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Online Stick Bender

  • Member
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Pyramid vs everything else
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2017, 01:03:58 pm »
I try not to fixate on one design over the other but I think the choice between the parallel limb vs Pyramid boils down to which design can hold the most reflex for the same over all mass , I try to build my bows using Tim Bakers mantra mass where it's needed and none where it's not , but I would bet the Molly type design would match or best the pyramid ,maybe Bubby will chim in he has made a lot of both designs !
If you fear failure you will never Try !