Author Topic: Juniper  (Read 3325 times)

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Offline loefflerchuck

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Juniper
« on: November 22, 2017, 12:04:53 am »
I want to start out by saying I am not a flight shooter, but I read the posts on the "flight bows" page more carefully than any other. Very high caliber of intelligent bow building here i will continue to learn much from. That being said I did build a half assed flight bow a while back from juniper. 4 layers of sinew backing in the center tapering to almost nothing at the tips. The narrow tips had a sharp contact recurve with 5.5" reflex. Bow is about 56" long and drew about 45#@26". I made some light tapered cedar arrows and got speeds up to 214fps. It had a more rectangle cross section than any other juniper bow I have built. Now I don't think that added any to the bow. Still have the not quite finished half assed flight bow. I still think the right design for juniper and sinew holds real potental for a flight bow. Even with sinew tapered to the tips it is as light as a feather. That and it is easy to make a 55" bow with 5.5" of reflex that draws 28". I know there are plenty of other woods when we are talking same design that will kick junipers ass, but given the right design for juniper and sinew I think it is a true contender. Dan, i know you have made flight bows of ERC.
  Getting back to my point of not really making flight bows i have a couple well designed sinew backed juniper bows here I have gotten good numbers from. They are both true to primitive designs with some minor tweaks. Both of rocky Mt juniper and elk sinew. I included pictures of the arrows I used to test. Shafts I turned through a dowel maker with no taper and regular field points. Feathers are glued and wrapped with sinew.

#1 Miwok design. 52.25" ntn heavy sinew to the tips with knocks made of sinew extending past the wood to form a hook. maximum width just over 1.25". 5.75" rested reflex/recurve. Total weight 11.4 oz with the brain tanned handle. Cross section looks like a lemon. 50 pound draw at 26" I used a 3 ply sinew string for the test shooting with a 6.5" brace height. The tips are so narrow and rounded i was afraid a more shallow brace could result in the string slipping off the contact recurve.
#1 arrow was cedar 435 grains. 51# spine. Throwing out the slowest and fastest speed all the shots were between 185 and 193 fps. The near identical arrow that was a couple grains lighter and 54# spine was slower.
#2 arrow birch Ishi style feathers. 579 grains with a 56# spine. All these shots were between 167 and 173 fps. This time the identical arrow with the 52# spine was slower. So the stiffer arrow was faster for the heavier weight.

#2 bow is a Ishi style bow. True to form in every way with a lenticular cross section except the tips are a little more narrow and I did the sinew over 3 weeks. Only floor tillered the bow before sinewing but I would guess if I could pull it to 28" before backing without it breaking it would have only been about 35#. I strung the bow backwards and put on 2 layers. A week later took off the string and added 1.5 more layers. 2 days later put the string back on backwards to let the sinew do it's work. A week after that one more layer. After 80 or so shots it maintains 4.75" of reflex. total weight is 13.9 oz. Just under 2" at the widest near handle. The bow is 55" nock to nock and has a full draw of 28" where it weighs 54 pounds. This time I used a 12 strand endless fast flight string with a 5.25" brace height.

Arrow #1 was the same cedar arrow as above 435 grains. I drew the bow to 27" to test this one where it had a 50# draw. All speeds were between 191 and 196 fps.
#2 was the same birch arrow as above 579 grain drawn the full 28" and 54# draw. At first all the speeds were between 175 and 177 fps. i wanted to make sure I was not under drawing the bow and drew it just past my mark by maybe 1/4" and got the next 5 shots between 189 and 193 fps.

Anyway.. I'm learning a bit about how important tuning in arrows are for optimum flight. Like I say, I'm not building flight bows but I think most bowyers are trying to get the best from the bows they are making. I will continue to learn from your posts.

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 12:06:49 am »
Most of those pictures are of the Ishi style bow so here it is at 28" draw

Offline joachimM

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2017, 06:07:28 am »
That is pretty amazing, Chuck.
I bet the low density of the juniper works in your favour here.
Now itís time to flight shoot them!
Take a bow, shoot far, aim high

Offline Badger

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2017, 08:39:14 am »
  Excellent performers there. Your heavy arrow speeds are excellent. Not sure how light your light arrows were. By the speeds I am guessing around 300 grains. You may need to go a bit lighter. I think these bow would really shine in the 50# broadhead class and force me to put a little more work in. The bow I hold the 50# simple composite with was shooting a 500 grain arrow at about 180 fps, now they are shooting 450 grains so that same bow would be shooting at about 188. That got me 231 yards with the 500 grains. With a good shot I am pretty sure you could break 240 with that bow.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 08:55:46 am »
Excellent bows and numbers Chuck.Good of you to share the info on the performance.Excellent efficient use of juniper wood I'd say.It's time consuming testing these bows but fun though too.I only shoot through the chrono here so arrows are'nt the best.
Arrows are bigger then ever getting the most out of distance.Stiffer spine better distance.Then it's all about clean release too.Nice looking arrows BTW.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 09:23:23 am by BowEd »
BowEd
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Ed

Offline DC

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 10:49:52 am »
Cool stuff Chuck. I noticed the black tips on the arrows. I found my chrono results were much cleaner with the black tips.
Vancouver Island
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Offline willie

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 05:43:55 pm »
nice work , and good performance.
Interesting comparison between arrows. I am supposing that a few grains or a few pounds wouldn't make much difference at the chrono. I wonder what other factors could account for the differing speeds? You seem to have good consistency in your test speed numbers.

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 12:19:56 pm »
Thanks everyone. I do have a spot close to me with plenty of room to test distance. Badger, I will have to try some shots with a broadhead. Yes the light arrows i tested with the bow not pictured were around 300. I don't remember but do have it written down somewhere. Ed, it is kind of fun testing bows. I always end up spending more time than I planed. Good to know DC. The day I tested was grey and overcast. The speeds were very consistent. On  sunny days I have gotten some pretty random speeds. Willie, I guess an accurate flight test is needed.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 09:27:09 pm »
thank you for posting, the Ishi style is one of my favorites and have studied it quite a bit,, I always felt the Native design was capable of very good performance ,, your bows highlight that for me,,,,, those guys had a few things figured out, no wonder was a favorite for Ishi,, nice bows congrats,,, B

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 11:08:20 am »
Thanks Brad. I think some people today make the mistake of backing the bow when it is still very heavy and that does not let the sinew do it's job. Old accounts from California tell of how weak the wood core was before backing. It is obvious when you see old bows from California and the great basin that the core was weak letting the sinew draw the bow up into reflex and accounting for 20+ pounds of the draw weight.

Online Selfbowman

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 03:15:02 am »
There is one way to find out . Meet us at the flats next summer.  Nice bow by the way Chuck. Arvin
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline gfugal

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Re: Juniper
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 01:41:41 pm »
Beautiful. I'm not a flight shooter, but maybe one day I'll aspire to be one (not even far enough to consider myself an aspiring flight bowyer). This gives me hope since juniper is a local wood of mine. I don't have ready access to Osage or Yew, so I am glad to hear about successes from other woods.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.