Author Topic: An unfortunate argument  (Read 4541 times)

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Offline Del the cat

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An unfortunate argument
« on: November 29, 2017, 07:13:12 am »
I'm sorry to be posting this but I feel it is important.
The video of the record breaking ELB shot clearly shows something other than a simple glove on the archers hand and there is a somewhat acrimonious discussion raging on Facebook.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVkTlu0C-Ks&feature=youtu.be
Even if he doesn't actually overdraw*, the device would allow him the confidence to be more aggressive with the draw/loose.
The real question is does it meet with the regulations which I believe say a glove is allowed but anything that could allow an overdraw is not.
Del
* Note the frame rate on the video isn't high enough to be conclusive IMO.
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Offline Badger

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 07:23:03 am »
  Del, due to so many accidents at the flight ranges safety is a major issue. I do favor using hand protection but also favor designs that will limit the draw. I have watched the video and an sure he did not overdraw, I have also watched him shoot in person many times. Maybe modifying this design a bit to prevent the possibility of overdraws would be good.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 07:27:52 am »
Cheers Steve, I was hoping you'd offer an opinion. :)
Del
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Offline sleek

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 10:15:30 am »
Why isnt a draw stop string used to prevent overdraw without any question?
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Offline avcase

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 09:03:53 pm »
Why isnt a draw stop string used to prevent overdraw without any question?

What would this look like? A string tied between the bow and nock point on the bowstring?

Offline avcase

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 09:33:13 pm »
An overdraw is forbidden for the English Longbow event, but there is more to this story.  The archer in question has had a shattered wood arrow fly threw his hand on more than one occasion. That is something I don’t want to happen at our event, so I will always encourage the use of protective gear for the bow hand. Unfortunately, the glove used resembles the appearance of a Turkish Siper and looks like it could be used as an overdraw. Unfortunately, this will always cast some doubt on the validity of this record shot.

There were many videos taken during the shoot, and this video was put out there for public viewing by the archer in question. I think it is best to collect what facts we can and then make a judgement based on that.

Alan

Offline Badger

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 12:21:41 am »
   If you look at his hand protection from a different angle you can see it is lashed down tightly as it drops over the hand, in the video it appears to come straight back but it doesn't.

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 08:29:52 am »
Unfortunately after watching the video I can tell you that it does look to me like he overdrew in that shot, you can see it at 26 and again at 46
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Offline JNystrom

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 08:40:30 am »
Looks to me like a overdraw also. Having arrows shatter is very unfortunate, but it is a part of the competition. In every sport you are vulnerable to injuries. Still, having a thick one layer leather glove would give enough protection, at least in my opinion. So where do you need the extra padding but in overdrawing?

Offline sleek

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 08:49:50 am »
Why isnt a draw stop string used to prevent overdraw without any question?

What would this look like? A string tied between the bow and nock point on the bowstring?

Exactly. One strand of 50# test braided fishing line does the trick. Its so light weight it wont hurt anything either.
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline Badger

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 10:13:01 am »
 This view appears as an overdraw, if you see the side profile you can clearly see that the protective leather angles sharply downward from the knuckle, giving no more overdraw than a glove with similar leather. Join the facebook group flight shooting and you will see more angles. There was no overdraw and the peace of equipment should be approved for all bows without arrow rests. Nothing like a sipor. 

Offline avcase

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 08:43:46 pm »
Thanks Steve,
You summarized it well. No wrong-doing or cheating was found. Cameras are everywhere at this event, so there was plenty of video and pictures to sift through. Officials at the shoot were also able to witness firsthand that this accessory was being used as a safety item and did not function as an overdraw device.  The fact that it appears like a sipur from the viewpoint of the video camera and subsequent confusion is unfortunate.

For everyone’s future reference, I do recommend use of protective equipment at our shoot. I see it no different than use of a helmet and fire suit at a car race.  At a Flight shoot, equipment is being pushed to the limits and there’s is no glory in having to remove arrow shards from one’s hand.

Thanks.

Alan

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 06:27:01 am »
Hey Steve
Could you post a better pic?  I hardly ever use facebook and I'm not savvy enough to find any info on this over there
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Offline Badger

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 08:13:00 am »
   I will try Mark, I am not too savvy at that.

Offline Badger

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Re: An unfortunate argument
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 08:16:05 am »
it is