Author Topic: overshots with a antler cylinder  (Read 3610 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 1442

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,020
overshots with a antler cylinder
« on: December 27, 2017, 01:47:37 am »
Bens posts on overshots inspired me to try something I've thought of forever and never tried until tonight.
I have very limited experience with antler work or hammerstone work, but I've seen photos of antler cylinders assumed to be used for knapping.
I made a cylinder about a inch in diameter and three inches long and grabbed a couple quartze rocks for hammerstones and a large flake of grainy tough material as an abrader, made a short bout 4" handle to tie to the cylinder to make a antler hammer type percussion tool.
I started out with the hammerstones and broke the end off pretty quick, but once I got the edges worked I swapped over to the antler hammer and managed to get three overshots and the fourth on stopped just short. But then I proceeded to have all sorts of problems trying to set up anything  and get flakes like I wanted. I sanded the end of the antler and started getting flakes again but I was pretty worn out by then and couldn't hit quite where I wanted.
I experimented with different things just trying to learn more about how antler works and made a small point out of it in the end.
I'm gonna get a better rock and try again next chance I get, but I figgered I'd post some quick pics for now while overshots are popular,

Offline 1442

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,020
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 01:49:39 am »
That's where I knocked off the end with the hammerstone, and here's where I started with the antler hammer

Offline 1442

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,020
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 01:54:42 am »
I got the third overshot and the fourth one stopped short by 1/4"
then just shows to a preform sorta stage. I took more pics but am real short on time to post them now.

Offline 1442

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,020
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 01:59:56 am »
well here's four more for now.
at this point I was struggling to get any kind of flake with the antler cylinder and pressure flaking with a tine wasn't working either. I eventualy got it going again by sanding the working surfaces of the antlers but it sure was tough from there on out.

Offline bjrogg

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,701
  • Cedar Pond
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 10:02:08 am »
Nice to see you back here 1442. I've been wondering how you've been. Hope your hands are doing ok yet.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline aaron

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,037
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 10:12:06 am »
Can you show the cylinder and how you use it?
Ilwaco, Washington, USA
"Good wood makes great bows, but bad wood makes great bowyers"

Offline Zuma

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,324
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 05:12:23 pm »
I hope hummingbird checks this out. He is very handy with a wood hammer etc.
I can't process all the photos so I can't tell if your new method is just great for
over shots or thinning as a whole. No rush, as you mentioned you are going to
adjust and try again. Is what we are looking at here mostly the difference of a flattened
cylinder end  vs a rounded one?
Thanks Zuma
If you are a good detective the past is at your feet. The future belongs to Faith.

AncientTech

  • Guest
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 05:46:07 pm »
Second knapper today followed my instructions - Luke Cord, after Andrew Minnick

AncientTech

  • Guest
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 05:46:50 pm »
Full bazooka overshot!

Offline 1442

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,020
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 01:24:59 am »
here's the antler hammer. I just used it like a copper bopper as a spearment.
I have never been able to get antler to work well. The humility here now is 89% and maybe that is part of it but I just never could hardly get flakes to release without tearing up the antler.
This was mostly to satisfy my own curiosity and see iff overshot flakes with antler required advanced knapping skills and special methods or if it was like I figgered and found out, it really aint no big deal, and is really easy to get overshots with antler as long as you have thick steep angle platform.
I was thrilled at first as those three overshots came off clean with practicaly no edge loss on the far side, didn't require much setup on the stiched edges for a platform and they flattened that side of the biface really well.
After that though, the thrill turned to agrivation and frustration and just all out desperation to try to turn the edge and get flakes across the other face. I couldn't get a pressure flake to save my life with an antler tine and it was no longer fun anymore.
But anyway! I love a good overshot flake and strive to get them when I knap with copper but they really seem more of a novelty  than a functional means of creating a finished surface of a point. I think the only place they are practical is on larger bifaces to make them look cool until time to work them down farther.

Large wide spreading overshots right in the middle are the easiest ones to make like AT posted here, It's real easy to take off a lot of the far side too like AT posted here and on his video for Zuma too. My three overshots terminated really nicely right on the margins of the far side and I'm not saying that to take credit cause it was mostly luck because I just used the antler hammer exactly like I would have used a copper bopper. I don't know but I have pretty good luck terminating overshots on the far margin by freehand supporting the piece with the far  edge pressed and seated lightly into the palm, a finger or two underneath close to the platform ( preferably on each side) and my thumb placed right above the platform with a light squeeze enough to be able to lightly press the far side into the palm.

AncientTech, Full bazooka overshots are cool I have to admit they are. But what the heck good is that other than to show off how too much support and power will turn up and take off too much of the far edge and leave you with more material n the overshot flake than whats left in the biface.
does Mr. Cord know what to do next with his now thin in the middle biface? Did you instruct him on what to do after a full bazooka overshot, besides take pics with the overshot flake all in the way of the more important piece,(the biface) to show how the good ol full bazooka overshot was a usefull strategy in the reduction of the core and facilitates farther flake removals from the core?
I just wandering because to me overshots seem really easy to create but not always easy to work with once they are put on.

P.S. Thanks for sharing the videos and your work.



AncientTech

  • Guest
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 05:53:53 am »
Cord is already a master knapper.  He has frames full of big spectacular points.  The problem with the way flintknappers are learning today,  is that they put all the focus on a finished point.  It is like a beauty contest or something.  If knappers were trying to understand ancient technology - THE ACTUAL TECHNOLOGY - they would be making all sorts of stuff that they currently do not know how to make.

Offline Hummingbird Point

  • Member
  • Posts: 147
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 10:12:06 am »
1492:

I have been using hafted antler hammers for knapping "flint" and hafted wood hammers to knap quartzite for many years now.  I have simple ways to do it with any solid piece of antler.  Power, accuracy, speed and versatility are (for me any way) are leaps and bounds beyond billets.  Years ago I put it all on PaleoPlanet.

However, that is not a subject I want to get into here and now.  Ben has put a lot of work into his method and guys like me have begged him to show it, so I don't want to distract from that.  Beyond that my experience over the years is that very few people care about unorthodox methods and aren't going to take the time to really learn them.  It certainly is difficult, which I totally get, having done it many, many times myself. 

Certainly if anyone is interested I will tell you everything I think I know, but private message me.

Keith

Offline aaron

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,037
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 10:17:43 am »
hummingbird point- I'd be interested in hearing about your hammer techniques- you could start a new topic. I've made antler hammers that resemble a carpenters hammer- they certainly do let you use smaller pieces of antler than you'd need with a "regular" billet.
Ilwaco, Washington, USA
"Good wood makes great bows, but bad wood makes great bowyers"

Offline Zuma

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,324
Re: overshots with a antler cylinder
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 10:19:34 am »
That is a dandy hammer 1442 )P( I just made some buckskin raw hide for things like that.
If you can, try to get some far north white tail antler. I use a shed from a ND deer. Very dense
but still plenty of spring. Thanks for filling us in on your experiment. 8) 8)
Zuma
If you are a good detective the past is at your feet. The future belongs to Faith.