Author Topic: Re. Handle pop-off  (Read 3878 times)

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Offline redhillwoods

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Re. Handle pop-off
« on: January 09, 2018, 02:14:20 pm »
When laminating grips, I have always used belly wood that was at least 3/4", so after tillering there was no stress in the glue line, the piece just acts as a pure riser. As a result, I've never had a grip pop off.  I've now got some thinner belly slats so the riser's glue line will be on the same level as the bottom of the belly, creating a potential for it to pop-off. I would like to take some precautions to help ensure that the riser stays on. I was thinking of 1 or 2 wooden stopper pegs inserted in the handle, drilling through the bottom of the riser and terminating mid-belly.  Ideas?

Offline Pat B

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 02:48:58 pm »
The pegs won't help and could weaken the bow. Make your belly out of enough lams to equal 3/4" and you should be good. Another method that sometimes works is make the riser out of multiple lams of graduated lengths so they can flex some.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 03:02:46 pm »
Completely unnecessary. When I make a bow that needs a piece added on for the handle, I add it to the core which is the same thickness as the inner limbs, no pedestal or powerlam, and they never come apart. Good glue, good surface prep, and good design is what ensures a good bond, which will be maintained even if the area flexes a little.

First I mate the pieces as best I can. I'm pretty anal about a good fit. Then groove them with a toothing plane blade, held like a scraper, creating grooves the full depth of the teeth, the length of both surfaces to be glued. Then glue with Smooth On EA 40, clamp, and set a shop light near it for warmth. With the grooves from the toothing plane blade, it's practically impossible to starve the joint of glue.

Now, just because we create a very good joint doesn't mean we should do a lesser job of coordinating the flares and dips, or blending the dips into working limb. Imo, many folks could do a better job of it. So make them flow into one another seemlessly, so from the side you can't tell where one piece stops and the other begins, and so the dips gradually slow the flexing of the limbs. It's the fear of them flexing, and the fear of the handle popping, and perhaps impatience or lack of finess in this area that causes many folks to shape them in such a way that they halt the bend too abruptly, ironically increasing the odds of separation.

Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 03:29:59 pm »
This is about as short and abrupt as I ever make an added on handle piece. The handle block is 9" long, containing a 4" handle and 2.5" dips on either end. I made it this short because the bow was just 58" long, but have made them up to 14" long on longer bows... usually they're about 12". On this bow, the osage and yew lams maintain that 'working' thickness right through the handle/dip area. I cut it out along the line, and then blended it in better when shaping and tillering.
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 03:45:31 pm »
finished
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 03:57:30 pm »
Another short trilam with a short added on handle piece... no pedestal or power lam. Of course you can shape the handle other ways and still finess the dips, I know folks who do it with deeper locator grips and shelves cut closer to center, etc.
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline redhillwoods

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 05:36:13 pm »
Thank-you so much Dances with Squirrels. You put alot of time and effort into that response and I greatly appreciate it. What you wrote makes perfect sense. Thanx for clarifying that for me. And your bows look beautiful.

Offline vinemaplebows

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 07:37:59 pm »
This is about as short and abrupt as I ever make an added on handle piece. The handle block is 9" long, containing a 4" handle and 2.5" dips on either end. I made it this short because the bow was just 58" long, but have made them up to 14" long on longer bows... usually they're about 12". On this bow, the osage and yew lams maintain that 'working' thickness right through the handle/dip area. I cut it out along the line, and then blended it in better when shaping and tillering.

I do a very similar build, but add at 1''8 inch (1) lam that extends just shy of the fade.
Debating is an intellectual exchange of differing views...with no winners.

Offline vinemaplebows

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 11:27:23 am »
Like this.


Debating is an intellectual exchange of differing views...with no winners.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 12:00:19 pm »
This is the way I was taught too.
After glue up of backing to core the shape to fit of the handle is traced out.
A dry fit is done.
Glueing and clamping is done.
Shaping to suit your needs is done next to finish.
This one is about a foot long handle on a 68" bow.Using EA40 smooth on I've never had a handle pop off.



BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 12:04:32 pm »
Deflexed bow are much more unlikely to pop a handle. Straight bows are a different bird.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 12:39:24 pm »
That's correct.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline vinemaplebows

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 12:40:51 pm »
Pearlie,

                   I agree, but always wondered if it was the return of the limbs right after the shot of a arrow, that caused the separation, not so much the drawing of the bow. I should add vibration, on straight limbed.

Good pics Ed.
Debating is an intellectual exchange of differing views...with no winners.

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 12:51:43 pm »
In my opinion, its the way the deflex comes back towards the archer and the straight bow is, well, straight. That abruptness could be why. I see it this way: If I want to cut thin wood I know I can score it and snap it off clean when I use a square edge on my bench. If I tried that same trick on a round edge I probably wouldn't get a clean break at the score.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 01:00:15 pm by PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS »
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline joachimM

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Re: Re. Handle pop-off
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 01:03:50 pm »
Pearlie,

                   I agree, but always wondered if it was the return of the limbs right after the shot of a arrow, that caused the separation, not so much the drawing of the bow. I should add vibration, on straight limbed.

Good pics Ed.

I've had a few issues on straight bows with handles that popped off. Always during the draw, not the release.