Author Topic: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas  (Read 12586 times)

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Offline Oglala Bowyer

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2018, 03:47:03 am »
No judgement here Chuck.  I was just curious about the sinew application because I’ve seen others use the “all at once method” and the “one by one method” and wanted to know what the difference is.

Offline Aaron H

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #76 on: April 10, 2018, 08:22:49 am »
Excellent build.  Thanks for taking is along.

Offline BowEd

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #77 on: April 10, 2018, 09:25:40 am »
+1 about this thread.It's fun to read because it's presented well.The question about the deflex position for a period of time.Horn is more elastic than wood and sinew can move it easier.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 11:40:14 am by BowEd »
BowEd
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Ed

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2018, 07:45:49 am »
I hear you Oglala. All at once has only worked up to 3 layers for me. More I have issues with but it sounds like the total backing is only going to be 3 on this bow. The comment was not aimed at you. More at me seeing things done another way than how I do it. I'm personally taking notes here to add to my bag of tricks.

Offline Oglala Bowyer

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2018, 08:27:20 am »
I'm thinking of using a combination of both for my horn bow project.  Slight deflex followed by the one by one approach.  That way I feel I can work at a safer pace for myself.  I'm thinking of using 5-6 layers of sinew.

Offline Redhand

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2018, 01:54:34 pm »
I would have to agree with chuck this is a A+ build along. 
Thanks 240 for taking us along on your journey to a great bow.
Northern Ute

Offline NorthHeart (240m3srt)

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2018, 09:13:47 pm »
I'm going to give this build-a-long a A+. This is the best step by step I have ever seen for these bows. I'm not going to question someone's methods just because I do it another way. I will say, if you want a smoother sinew application you can use a comb to comb all the fibers straight before dipping it in sinew. If need be you can use the comb while laying it on the back too. One of the reasons I don't apply all the sinew at one time is I use 3 to 4+ ounces of dry processed sinew( 8 layers). When this much sinew dries it will draw up into canyons on the back. I try to do it in 3 applications over 3 weeks.
 I saw someone question the deflex application. This will decrease the early draw of the bow but I have read an old accounts of this method being used on old plains bows. I can not remember the exact region. I would need to go back and find this info.
 Nice work! This will help anyone in the future make one of these bows on the first try.

Thank you very kindly Chuck. :)

About tying these bows into deflex...did the old accounts of plains bows pertain specifically to horn bows...or just wood?  Id love to see the literature if you can find it.

Offline NorthHeart (240m3srt)

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2018, 09:21:03 pm »
Guys, i picked up the bows from Toms house a few days ago, and i am now permanently living in Missoula, MT.  Indeed the sinew flattened down quite a bit.  Also i noticed that this method of splicing seems to make one limb come in at a slightly steeper angle at the "fade" area near the handle.  We will see how this affects tillering.  Here are the pics with side profile shots.  Next step is to cut them loose in a few weeks to a month...

Offline Oglala Bowyer

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #83 on: April 14, 2018, 04:47:24 am »
Interesting.  IMHO, It looks as though the one with a kink off the fade appears to not be on the board evenly. Perhaps that’s the reason it kinks?  I can only guess from my standpoint.

Offline BowEd

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2018, 05:19:19 am »
It's cool to see though no special clamps,forms,or other tools besides a good farriers rasp and a vise to get there to this stage.Bracing those really high reflexed bows is an adventure that's for sure.Hence the deflexed position at first.I made a peg board myself.
BowEd
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Ed

Offline NorthHeart (240m3srt)

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #85 on: April 14, 2018, 07:24:37 pm »
You nailed it BowEd.  Deflexing these bows on the board has definitely caught some flack, and i get that.  I too was skeptical myself.  But i figure listen to the man whos built them most his life and take his advice.  When i remove them we will see how much they go back, if at all.  And in the end how they perform on the shot will be my determining factor.  I plan to chrono them for comparisons sake to my wood bows.

Offline BowEd

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2018, 04:27:52 am »
I truely believe after taking them off the form and I'm sure Tom has told you too along with Chucks' experienced statements that it will reflex good yet.Horn is way more elastic than wood.I''ve only done wood core sinewed horn bows.
The thing too about being so reflexed when dry is that even though it gets braced it can be quite a bit more unstable and a person will have to babysit it until it settles in.Using bicycle rubber innertube sections to help hold it in tiller good.It's just all the process of making these type bows.It's a good thing and completely different adventure than making a regular wooden bow.A lot of useful experience is gotten and learned from making these bows.
In Tom's video there's something that bothered me though.He said he's never seen a wooden bow shoot as fast as a all horn hornbow.This really is'nt true.The old unmerciful extractor of truth chronograph does'nt lie.
BowEd
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Ed

Offline NorthHeart (240m3srt)

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2018, 04:37:10 pm »
Over the last few weeks i conversed with Chuck Loeffler a bit, and decided to deviate slightly from my original plan by removing the bows from their braced position on the wood blocks.  I am also going to add a bit more sinew after taking into consideration the current horn/sinew ratio.  I do believe Toms method of tying the bows into deflex while they dry has value.  I surmise they are easier to brace with a lesser chance of them debracing on the shot, which is exactly what he stated. I also suspect less chance of the limb tips twisting with them lashed down into a fixed position.  We will see in the future whether i made a wise decision.

After unlashing, the longer bow did indeed give back to a lesser deflexed state, though still not reflexed.  I added another layer of sinew 1.5 weeks ago, and now i am getting a bit of reflex.  I did this by sanding the sinew, sizing with hide glue and then adding more back sinew.  The shorter bow remained almost the same after it was removed.  I believe this is due to the shape of the horn, particularly how the splice "angled" one limb back a bit so to speak.  I am probably going to add a bit more sinew to this one as well.  Not sure if it will dry into reflex but maybe a bit less deflex.  Then i'm going to wait some more and see what they both do.  Today i lashed the handles more.  I did a fairly rough job, i will likely sand it down a bit and do a nicer final layer in the future.

Offline Mounter

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2018, 06:04:49 pm »
cant give you any advise but i am watching with great interest.....  luv what your doing

Offline NorthHeart (240m3srt)

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Re: 240's sheep horn bow build with Tom Lucas
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2018, 08:45:45 pm »
cant give you any advise but i am watching with great interest.....  luv what your doing

You got it man, i love sharing this journey of the horn bow!

In Tom's video there's something that bothered me though.He said he's never seen a wooden bow shoot as fast as a all horn hornbow.This really is'nt true.The old unmerciful extractor of truth chronograph does'nt lie.

BowEd i agree with your comment.  The bow design is just as important as its materials IMO.  Assuming they make it to the shooting phase these horn bows will both see chrono action.  I love my chrono.  It takes my "oh this feels fast" sentiment and puts it to the test.