Author Topic: Is hide gule good enough?  (Read 4590 times)

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Offline BowEd

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2018, 09:15:58 am »
Marc....How long had the sinew backed bow you heat treated been curing because heat treating a bow temps go way beyond 250 degrees F.Why do you think too hot of hide glue shrivels sinew?Too much heat turns leather into bacon shriveled up.I gotta be leary myself.I've used steam to shrink and thicken wet rawhide before I know.
Kuddos to you for getting that heat treating done.Did you put more reflex into the bow when heat treating?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 09:36:04 am by BowEd »
BowEd
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Offline willie

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2018, 10:21:51 am »
Willie
The glues used around here are gorilla glue, mightybond, marine epoxy and latex glue. I’ve tried the marine epoxy and it seems too brittle. Laminated some thin bamboo together and broke when I tried to bend it. The bamboo bent fine beforehand.

Ryan
Did wood workers recommend those glues? I bet there is better choices available. What can you find out about local fish glue?

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2018, 11:51:38 am »
Marc....How long had the sinew backed bow you heat treated been curing because heat treating a bow temps go way beyond 250 degrees F.Why do you think too hot of hide glue shrivels sinew?Too much heat turns leather into bacon shriveled up.I gotta be leary myself.I've used steam to shrink and thicken wet rawhide before I know.
Kuddos to you for getting that heat treating done.Did you put more reflex into the bow when heat treating?

That is where people confuse wet sinew and dry sinew.  Try subjecting a piece of dry sinew to 200 degrees F to see if it shrivels.  Once the sinew backing is dry then you can heat it, doesn't matter how long it has been curing it just needs to be dry...
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline BowEd

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2018, 12:02:43 pm »
Yes I agree.There's a limit though I'm sure.Now that means you can leave a cured sinew bow inside an enclosed sealed car in the sun then without any damage.Just a bit of poundage weight increase is all,but if the bow is not cured totally and used or drawn delamination can occur and for sure loss in draw weight.
BowEd
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Ed

Offline gfugal

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2018, 12:30:44 pm »
Willie
The glues used around here are gorilla glue, mightybond, marine epoxy and latex glue. I’ve tried the marine epoxy and it seems too brittle. Laminated some thin bamboo together and broke when I tried to bend it. The bamboo bent fine beforehand.

Did the bamboo break, or did the glue joint just delaminate? It also depends on how far you were bending it. If it delaminated I probably wouldn't use it unless you had to bend it in over its self before it delaminated. But if the boo just broke after glue up I don't think that's the issue of the glue. If you bend two separate pieces together they don't act like a composite. They act as two separate thin laminates which can bend much further then they would if properly fused together.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline Ryan Jacob

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2018, 09:24:59 am »
Willie
Yup. Not to mention I’ve already checked around whenever I could for some good glue. As for fish glue, it seems to be a diy project though I can buy fish bladders easily. Heck, I probably have some in the fridge.
gfugal
Yeah the bamboo gave way, I tested a leftover piece of epoxy that got stuck on my workbench, very rubbery and strong

Offline willie

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2018, 09:52:41 am »
ryan

i saw some white glue made by the same company that makes mighty bond, pioneer? maybe. although I would try an epoxy again. I use a boatbuilding epoxy that is used for laminating glass fabric. it is thin but there are techniques to make it work. some formulations have additives to make them rubbery or useful for some things but not others. Hard to tell, but if there are specialty additives in what you tried, it will never be as strong as straight resin.
 
I find better results if I mix very well, and then mix again, especially if  I am mixing a small amount compared to the size of the mixing container. not fully cured is another reason it can seem rubbery also. I mix by weight not volume to get the proportions correct, as that too can make it rubbery. I dont much like rubbery epoxy if your glue line is properly thin, good epoxy is flexible enough.
Quote
Heck, I probably have some in the fridge.
this is primitive archery, so fish glue might be the way to go if you are building a primitive bow :),  If you want to play around with fish skins/bladders, find something like a small electric double boiler that you can keep at about 180F or lower (this is probably an outside/shop only project, as it gets smelly and takes time) If you want to experiment with something like this, post as you go along. I think you will get some interest and comments here.

You know guys. You don't need to boil your hides or sinew down for glue. Just put a roast or chicken in the oven with some water and after awhile pour off the water. You will have some glue and diner at the same time. :)
and there is always knox, which I believe is more of a bone glue. some guys mix the fish and the hide

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2803.0.html
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 03:42:59 pm by willie »

Offline gfugal

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2018, 11:22:51 am »
Willie
Yup. Not to mention I’ve already checked around whenever I could for some good glue. As for fish glue, it seems to be a diy project though I can buy fish bladders easily. Heck, I probably have some in the fridge.
gfugal
Yeah the bamboo gave way, I tested a leftover piece of epoxy that got stuck on my workbench, very rubbery and strong

If the bamboo broke I'll probably say your glue is good enough. So at least that is an option for you if the fish glue doesn't work out.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline Springbuck

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2018, 04:53:00 pm »
  I'm really surprised you can't find just some regular epoxy.  I have seen it in the corners of shops in rural Taiwan, in out of the way, slummy-looking alleys in China, and in pretty poor sections of rural Mexico and Brazil.  Seems so ubiquitous.

Offline PatM

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Re: Is hide gule good enough?
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2018, 05:23:08 pm »
The marine epoxy he had  would probably work fine too.  Guys use West epoxy even though it's not really designed for bonding.