Author Topic: Marc St. Louis bow question (with progress pics)  (Read 8867 times)

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Offline Nasr

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Marc St. Louis bow question (with progress pics)
« on: May 22, 2018, 11:06:47 am »
 I've always wanted to attempt a bow like Marc's and now i think i am ready. However i am not sure about whether the bow must be backed or not. I dont know if he glues in the reflex in or heat treats it in then glues it up. I would rather splice a deflex in and heat treat the recurves in only because it would be easier for me to do with what i have. But i am not sure if the reflexed portion would stay put. I am gonna be using white oak heat treated and probably a 62" ntn  60# @ 28 " and 1.75" wide it might be over built with these dimensions but i want it that way for my first attempt.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 08:05:10 am by Nasr »

Offline DC

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2018, 11:10:36 am »
I'm also ready with a question or two when Marc chimes in. Thanks for posting this.

Offline Bob Barnes

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2018, 11:16:21 am »
The bow Marc made me is unbacked and heat bent into reflex. He does do a billet splice to get deflex in the grip area too.
Seems like common sense isn't very common any more...

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2018, 11:26:59 am »
Such a bow doesn't have to be backed.  I've made many deflex recurves or deflex reflex bows using billets of Osage, Elm or HHB.  When you make a bow like that using billets then the reflex has to be added with dry-heat and the limbs heat-treated.  You also have to use a wood that responds well to dry-heat and heat-treating otherwise you won't be able to reflex the limbs enough and it won't hold the reflex.  I've never used White Oak so couldn't tell you how well that would work.  I have tried White Ash and it doesn't work that well
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

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Offline DC

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2018, 11:32:59 am »
Marc, when you back a bow and use two strips of backing do you glue it up all at once or do it in two sessions? I'm concerned with the overlap joint of the backing bulging up when I clamp the reflex in. More so with recurved bows because the backing is kind of trapped between the recurve and the overlapped area and wants to shorten up when you bend it.

Offline Nasr

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2018, 11:58:08 am »
Such a bow doesn't have to be backed.  I've made many deflex recurves or deflex reflex bows using billets of Osage, Elm or HHB.  When you make a bow like that using billets then the reflex has to be added with dry-heat and the limbs heat-treated.  You also have to use a wood that responds well to dry-heat and heat-treating otherwise you won't be able to reflex the limbs enough and it won't hold the reflex.  I've never used White Oak so couldn't tell you how well that would work.  I have tried White Ash and it doesn't work that well

Marc i've worked with white oak and it bends really well using dry heat and also benefits with heat treating. I have not attempted a reflex deflex though so i don't know how it would work in that regards but i am confident i can get the curves i want with it. I am glad to hear i dont need to add a strip to the back it makes my first attempt at this much easier.

Offline Nasr

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2018, 12:00:59 pm »
The bow Marc made me is unbacked and heat bent into reflex. He does do a billet splice to get deflex in the grip area too.

i would really love to see a pic of that bow. I would greatly appreciate it :)

Offline bubby

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2018, 12:59:02 pm »
So Marc would hacberry be a good choice
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
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Offline PatM

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 02:39:10 pm »
If your wood choice works to make a reflexed recurved bow it's going to have no trouble being a D/R?R.

Offline Nasr

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 03:49:35 pm »
If your wood choice works to make a reflexed recurved bow it's going to have no trouble being a D/R?R.

Pat i agree i don't think it would my only concern is if it will hold its reflex as all of the bows i have done are static recurves and i want to make the whole limb reflexed.

Offline Badger

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2018, 04:07:30 pm »
  I started on one this morning inspired by Marks design. I used osage and heat bent the deflex into the handle. If it works out I will post it if I can figure out how to get the pics out of my camera on to my computer. It hasn't been working the last few years.

Offline Nasr

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2018, 04:36:08 pm »
  I started on one this morning inspired by Marks design. I used osage and heat bent the deflex into the handle. If it works out I will post it if I can figure out how to get the pics out of my camera on to my computer. It hasn't been working the last few years.

looking forward to it

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2018, 05:31:27 pm »
Marc, when you back a bow and use two strips of backing do you glue it up all at once or do it in two sessions? I'm concerned with the overlap joint of the backing bulging up when I clamp the reflex in. More so with recurved bows because the backing is kind of trapped between the recurve and the overlapped area and wants to shorten up when you bend it.

If I'm using 2 strips to back the bow then it's one limb at a time.  I'm not too concerned about the overlap, as long as it's a decent fit.  I let the backing on the first strip extend past the center of the handle and heat-bend it so that it sort of follows around the the crown of the handle.  I start clamping the backing at the handle and work my way out to the recurves.  My backings are thickness tapered and also pre-bent to follow the contour of the recurve.  It doesn't have to be perfect, you'll never get that, but the fit should be pretty good.  Then when the first backing is dry I'll sand it so that the next strip will lay flat against it, like an overlap.

Marc i've worked with white oak and it bends really well using dry heat and also benefits with heat treating. I have not attempted a reflex deflex though so i don't know how it would work in that regards but i am confident i can get the curves i want with it. I am glad to hear i dont need to add a strip to the back it makes my first attempt at this much easier.

White Ash heat-bends well also but it can't take the compression, it chrysals badly

So Marc would hacberry be a good choice

That's another wood I don't have access to so couldn't tell you

Ideally you would want at least 4" of reflex , more is better.  You don't want to put too much deflex in with a selfbow otherwise you'll have a hard time reflexing it enough to get the tips behind the handle.  Top quality Elm is great for a bow like this.  I've also come to believe that Elm benefits from a higher crown, what you would get from a small diameter tree.  Heat-treating seems to give balance to it's tension strong back
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline upstatenybowyer

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2018, 09:43:07 pm »
"If I'm using 2 strips to back the bow then it's one limb at a time.  I'm not too concerned about the overlap, as long as it's a decent fit.  I let the backing on the first strip extend past the center of the handle and heat-bend it so that it sort of follows around the the crown of the handle.  I start clamping the backing at the handle and work my way out to the recurves.  My backings are thickness tapered and also pre-bent to follow the contour of the recurve.  It doesn't have to be perfect, you'll never get that, but the fit should be pretty good.  Then when the first backing is dry I'll sand it so that the next strip will lay flat against it, like an overlap."

Marc, can it be done with just one long backing strip? If so, do you just flatten/round out the back over the splice as best you can and then proceed with the glue up?
"Even as the archer loves the arrow that flies, so too he loves the bow that remains constant in his hands."

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Offline Morgan

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Re: Marc St. Louis bow question
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2018, 11:34:50 pm »
So Marc would hacberry be a good choice
Bubbly, have you ever heat bent hackberry? It bends ridiculously easy. I couldn’t build a bow like Marc's to save my life, but I’d bet that the hackberry would work.