Author Topic: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.  (Read 2702 times)

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Offline bitterman

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Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« on: July 12, 2018, 11:21:31 am »
Hi,

I'm from Ontario Canada and going to make a Bow for my son who is 13. He is big for his age and want the bow capable of hunting deer in the future and that means a 40lb bow at 28"

He is strong for his age, but I still think this is too much for him.. so I expect will end up making 2 bows.. or more as I learn.. will see what I get if I can do a 41 or 42 lb bow.. and see how he handles it... if its too much I will just tiller it till its lighter and a good shooting weight and make a hunting bow later on when he is ready.

Looks like I have a decent ash log to slit into staves.  for ash I have see 2 methods, 1 that you remove all sap wood and the other that you leave the sap wood.. whats best? I want a reliable bow that will last him a life time (I plan to over build it and I know that will sacrifice some arrow speed ).

I'm looking for a decent white oak, ash or hickory to make a board bow possibly also for myself.. but will depend if I can get a piece with no grain run out (Or thick enough I can fix it.) with the perfect horizontal grain

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We will see. Most likely going on the longer side. for my sons draw length is about 26" vs my 28" draw. thinking starting with a 68" bow

Bruce

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 11:39:56 am »
Bruce welcome to PA. Funny I know a really nice bowyer named Bruce with the same last name as your username.
For ash harvested during the growing season simply remove bark and the cambium layer right under bark. During growing season it should just peal right off. It should leave you a perfect back with no reason to chase a ring. Unless it has bug damage then it's probably junk anyway. Aren't any live ash around here anymore. I would guess your right about making more than one bow.
Good Luck and have fun. Post pictures and ask questions.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline BowEd

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 11:43:03 am »
Just my 2 cents here.....A person can just shorten a bow as he gets stronger to pull more poundage.It won't change the tiller any if equal amounts are taken off each tip.Popping the bark off leaving the wood under that to be your back of the bow for a self bow from a stave.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 11:50:54 am »
I agree with Ed. You can make a longer bow to a lighter draw weight to start out. It'll give you a better chance of success to. Then later if you want more weight you can shorten it to gain weight.

Also I forgot to mention after you remove bark and cambium put a couple coats of shellac or some type of sealer on back and ends. You can remove some wood from belly side to help dry faster.
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline bitterman

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 11:54:18 am »
Thanks Guys.

I used bitterman as my full name is Bruce Itterman.

The log is about 8" maybe 9" the tree is alive but dying.. its at a friends place so need to see if the ash bore got it or not.. We ill see.

Bruce

Offline PatM

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 12:20:48 pm »
I wouldn't use Ash from that scenario. The under bark layer is probably riddled with tunnels.  Lots of good Elm in Ontario. See if you can get some of that.  Better and more versatile wood.

 Where are you located in Ontario?

Offline bitterman

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 12:32:43 pm »
Most the ELM in my area (near ottawa) are dead.. and the new ones that are growing are maybe 3" in diameter max and twisted pretty bad for the most part (the 2 I found)... I will definitely keep an eye out for them.. I do know were some 6" ironwood is and that is a possibility but a pain to work with.   I have some hickory,, but don't want to cut them... one is about 16" or bigger in diameter..  others are smaller.

I am going to check out the log at my friends place.. as its free.. and will see fast once its cut how bad or good it is.. can always make fire wood if needed.

I have 2 places/wood specialty shops I might be able to get a hickory board.. just not got there to look. white oak is an option.. I have some nice dry sugar maple also but not sure any the boards are the right grain.. or long enough... the wood was from a tree cut on our sugar bush. I'm not worried about finding the right piece of wood.. I will get something... then the fun begins.

Bruce
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 01:15:43 pm by bitterman »

Offline PatM

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 03:09:56 pm »
Unless things have changed drastically in that area there is a lot more Elm out there than you may assume.  Even with the blight, Elm is very prolific in regenerating and a lot of the trees are a good deal larger than 3 inches.

Offline youngbowyer33

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2018, 03:39:36 pm »
Hey Bruce, the Wood Source has dressed lumber in dimensions that are good if you don't have the machines to rip wider pieces. Some oak, ash, elm, even some hickory. Kjp hardwoods has bigger pieces that might need to be planed. Turned some hickory from them into backing strips. I haven't lived where I can cut trees in a while so can't be of much help. There is maple around too though
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2018, 03:58:16 pm »
My site may help you.
Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline bitterman

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2018, 04:50:08 pm »
Thanks everyone. Those are the 2 local suppliers I was mentioning.  Maple is easy have a sugar bush at my disposal

Thanks for the site Jawge

Offline bitterman

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2018, 06:52:37 am »
Just got word my friend is cutting the tree this weekend. So will get out to pickup the logs next week.

Here are some pics. looks like its nice and straight.. Will know more if bugs are a problem next week when I pick it up.

Offline bitterman

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 06:04:50 am »
Well I got the tree and this weekend I started making a bow with one the staves after splinting the staves out.

This tree must have dies last fall as was about 12% based on my moisture meter so I took one the worst twisted staves... I know did not make it easy on myself for a first bow.. but figured be a good learning experience.

I got a bow roughed out and rough tillered.

Not sure what lbs it will end up but was able to get to brace height at 70" long. It will be 68" and about 66 1/2" KTK

I was able to get it to full draw with the longer knocks..  so the lbs the bow will go up. Rather than picking a weight, I got it started tillering and then had my son pull till he was getting a little uncomfortable. Then would stop... tiller and light things till could get to his full draw slowly and still not be shaking. This is comfortable for him to pull right now.. so figure will be removing wood for finishing and to tweak the tiller.. so once shorter should end up about were it is now. I wanted it to be comfortable for him..  Guessing I think its about 35 lbs.. but I could be totally off.

The wood is not seasoned as well as I would like so this is just for learning and going through the process. It was about 12% .. better that the other staves still at 18% (Very humid here this summer so that's typical of air dried lumber in my area with a more humid summer like we are having.) The worst tree I cut at the farm was 25%

I might use a heat gun to try doing some re-curves on it also and this will help deal with the set. I got about 1-2" of set on the bow with the tillering I did..

Honestly don't expect it to be a great bow. Its 1 1/2" wide and I did this so will be a lighter pull weight for my son. Will make a real bow later.

Now that I am at this point I had already learned so much and be better prepared for the second bow. (Still need to finish this one once it dries some more, then I will finish it and do a leather wrap on the handle, cut the limps shorter and put in proper knock.. I might even do knock overlays with some deer horn )

If it turns out really nice, I might just get some sinew to up the bow to hunting weight. That's definitely another option. But thats most likley just dreaming as their is one area/flaw in showing on 1 side of the limb about half way up.. so we will see if this stands up and if it breaks. I tillered based on bend and that area is a little thicker.. so I think its a weak spot in the wood.

Was interesting I layed out things based on a string so was straight, but as I worked the stave the whole thing moved about 1/4" so the bow has a slight curve to it. I corrected this in the tiller though.. would have been perfect for a lefty... but the son is right handed. Just means will need to figure out what spline arrows to make.

I will try to get some pics soon and also check the draw weight at 28".. My son has a 26" draw so will be a bit less than at 28" the max I figured the bow would go as that's my draw length. I could anchor in pretty well with the bow.. and it felt good.. so we will see. but I am used to a 76 lb compound. Much different game with these back to basics primitive bows.

Learned so much already.. and as with anything the more you learn... the more you realize there is soooooooo much you just don't know and need to learn.... Can't wait to start on a properly seasoned stave.. and get a nice hunting weight bow for my son.. (would like one for myself also and that means 40lbs at max 28" draw for here) and something for me to shoot while he shoot this once its ready. Be really interesting to spend time with someone in the area that is experienced.. I bet just a weekend of learning would really move me forward light years.. I looked for courses but did not find anything in my area.

Bruce



Offline bitterman

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 04:18:37 pm »
Here are pics used a scale its about a 30 lbs pull. This will go up with shortening the bow.... but should be about right for shooting for a 13 year old.

Its not finished yet..  I left the tips a little stiff in case I re-curve them.. not sure whats best there.. The tiller looks better than I expected for my first try... But please comment and help... as I am very new to this.. maybe the tiller is horrible...  I do think the low lib is a fair bit stiffer than the top.. but it is shorter.. never done this before..

Thanks for the help,
  Bruce

Offline youngbowyer33

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Re: Introduction - Flat bow Questions. Maybe from ash.
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 05:47:05 pm »
Very impressive! Sounds like you made it pretty quick and still got a good bend out of it. Now build MORE!
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"