Author Topic: Why you have to remove the sapwood  (Read 9907 times)

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Offline DC

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2018, 11:47:05 am »
Do you really want to rinse those sugars and what all out? I would think that leaving them in(air dry) might increase the compression resistance.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2018, 11:49:30 am »
For bow making purposes I would'nt care to do it.Although sugars and resins should not be able to evaporate like moisture but might be lost from the pressure.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 11:57:53 am by BowEd »
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Offline Springbuck

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2018, 03:47:34 pm »
"I've read the bugs will leave the wood alone after it gets below 20% moisture.Think Tim Baker stated that."   I think that's true of fungi, but I've had staves sit for years in my dry garage, waiting to get to them.  Some were fine for 3-4 years, then suddenly the powder post beetles got em.

I have also noticed, at least with elm, yellow locust sapwood, and some plum, that the bugs FLOCKED to it after I had heat straightened it and left it sitting longer than I intended.  Cooking seemed to make it sweeter.

BowEd has mentioned, but remember that sap is different from water, and green wood has both.

Then, to stir the pot, I remember reading MANY years ago in the "on the rack" Primitive Archer magazine about SALT WATER curing of bow wood.  Anybody do that, or remember how it goes.

Offline Hamish

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2018, 07:32:59 pm »
 The old time bowyers from the late 19thC and early 20thC thought freshwater cured wood was inferior to air dried wood for bowstaves.

Offline vinemaplebows

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2018, 11:49:21 am »
Just curious has anyone tried curing Osage in water? I've seen it on YouTube. It's supposed to replace sap with water I think. Maybe it would dry more even then when removed from water? I really don't know just curious if anyone has tried it.
Bjrogg
I have done this, I don't believe you are replacing sap. What I think is happening is you are satuarating the wood with a equal MC which in turn leads to a more even drying since the wood should dry at a consistent rate. Sapwood near the cambian is much wetter than the interior wood is my belief.
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Offline vinemaplebows

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2018, 11:57:53 am »
Wood cured in water has interesting properties:

first, it removes the edible parts for bugs and fungi, as sugars and other yummy compounds are slowly extracted (like from a tea bag). So water-cured logs are much more resistant to decay. Since the wood structure is more porous after curing, the wood dries faster once sawn.

Second, it saturates the entire log with water, also the heart wood, which was drier than the sapwood. Slabs, boards and planks sawn from water-cured logs are dimensionally much more stable, have less warping and checking during drying, because there isn't any difference in moisture content across the wood.

Unfortunately, water-curing logs takes at least a year, preferentially even 2-3 years.


I agree with every thing you wrote except the amount of time.
Debating is an intellectual exchange of differing views...with no winners.

Offline mullet

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2018, 05:16:34 pm »
I agree, too, as long as we don't start that thread again about salt water and Buffalo urine. ;D (-P
Lakeland, Florida
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Offline BowEd

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2018, 03:42:17 pm »
There's nothing more disappointing then getting a 20 year old stave and chasing wasp holes out of it into the heartwood till all you have left for width on the stave is a sliver.Been there too many times.So I always take the bark and sapwood off to a ring and shellack it in moderate type weather.Never been disappointed doing things that way.The only time I delay is if the osage would be harvested in the dead of winter.
BowEd
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Offline ponyboy

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2018, 12:39:43 am »
I’ve got a sawmill, and this is how people in the timber business do it.  You won’t get checking this way.  SEAL THE ENDS. Is the most important part and should be done as soon as possible.  TAKE OFF THE BARK.  You know why, wasps.  SEAL THE SAP WOOD.  Then, get a chainsaw and make the belly a plain instead of a ‘v’ shaped wedge, then SEAL THE BELLY.  You want to lose moister content as slowly as possible, the only parts not sealed should be the edges.

Offline Jim Davis

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2018, 10:56:21 pm »
One thing that  has not been addressed is that since the outside of the tree/stave is larger diameter/wider, there is more shrinkage than in the wood closer  to the center. This is why there will seldom be a crack at the point of the pie  slice-shaped stave.

The lumber industry deals with this in the form of cupping of boards where the outer surface shrinks more than the inner. It's less about a difference in moisture content than about longer sections of growth rings on the outside of the log and board.  This is amplified in a split stave.
Jim Davis

Kentucky--formerly Maine

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2018, 11:53:18 am »
then you get a fence post,, stuck in the ground for 50 years plus,,no care taken,, and there is a bow in there,, osage is a mystery,, (-S

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2018, 07:08:53 am »
Here is an oddball theory (completely unfounded) on fence posts; When you stick one end in the ground you may have a ground moisture wicking effect that slows curing to a level that protects the integrity of the post.

Murray Gaskins from Ga, a prolific stave dealer from a few years back, did some testing while felling trees. He found if you dropped a tree with leaves on it and left it for 2 weeks untrimmed, the capillary action of the leaves would wick 40% to 60% of the moisture out of the trunk and cut the overall drying time of staves later cut from the same trunk.

Offline Jim Davis

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2018, 07:38:02 am »
We used to do Murray's method with maple and ash to get firewood dried faster.
Jim Davis

Kentucky--formerly Maine

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2018, 01:42:46 am »
Funny this came up. Was just chatting with Murray the other day.  Poor guy is just "et up" with raptors these days. LOL!
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.