Author Topic: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest  (Read 447 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Future Expert
Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« on: September 17, 2018, 04:03:36 am »
Thomas from Wyoming, here.  Morning, everybody. 

A bit about me:  I've been hunting with traditional gear for about 20 years, and using primitive gear (bamboo-backed hickory longbows) for about three.  I am really trying to improve my consistency lately:  My goal is to be able to consistently hit a tennis ball (or a rabbit head, or a deer heart) from 30 yards a year from now.  So, those of you that can shoot that way, expect a lot of questions from me.

My current question:  How does shooting off the hand vs. using an arrow rest affect accuracy?  All my longbows up to now have lacked an arrow shelf.  I enjoy shooting off the hand because it feels more traditional, I enjoy the contact with the arrow, and doggone it, I just bought a really cool armguard/bowglove combo.

OTOH, accuracy is my main concern, and if using an arrow shelf would help with that, I'd go with it.

This has become an issue lately because my favorite hunting bow (a bamboo hickory flatbow from Rudderbows) delaminated on me a couple weeks ago, so I'm in the market, and trying to decide which way to go.

Any input?  Thanks!

Thomas
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline aaron

  • Member
  • Posts: 988
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 05:48:05 am »
I bet a rest would help your accuracy. Accuracy is about doing the same exact thing every time- same draw length, same anchor, same bowhand placement, etc. The rest will help you with that. Hitting a tennis ball consistently at 30 yards would be awesome!
Ilwaco, Washington, USA
"Good wood makes great bows, but bad wood makes great bowyers"

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 31610
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 06:59:17 am »
If you like shooting off your hand add a Floppy Rest, which is a thin piece of leather at the arrow pass that will keep the arrow placement there consistent. If I can find a pic of how to make one I'll post it here.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline GlisGlis

  • Member
  • Posts: 727
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 08:13:53 am »
from internet


Offline PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS

  • Member
  • Posts: 13335
  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 08:25:32 am »
I prefer a shelf on a hunting bow for more reasons that just accuracy. When you HAVE to hold your arrow and bow at all times it eliminates the use of that hand/arm. I like a hunting bow to hold its own arrow when I cant. Also, I would warn you to steer clear of anything Rudder, but since they are closed down that's not a concern. Stay away from ultra cheap all wood bows, they are just that. A solid, dependable, well made self bow will cost $350-400 plus.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Future Expert
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2018, 09:13:54 am »
...same exact thing every time...Hitting a tennis ball consistently at 30 yards would be awesome!

Yep, I have really been working on consistency of form.  Reading lots of books and videos to see how other people approach it.

I used to shoot with an old timer who made his own self-bows.  Once saw him hit a hanging tennis ball at 25 yards 9 times out of 12 (and it was swinging after the first hit).  It inspired me.  But I'm finally getting serious about getting there myself.   :NN

from internet...

That is extremely helpful.  Looks like it's almost more of a guide for consistent hand placement than an arrow rest.  I find bowhand placement especially problematic when hunting in the cold--my wool gloves raise the arrow about 1/4 inch or so.  I've tried various built-up spots with my leather wrap through the years, but this is better than anything I've come up with.  See, I should have come here years ago.

Also, I would warn you to steer clear of anything Rudder, but since they are closed down that's not a concern. Stay away from ultra cheap all wood bows, they are just that. A solid, dependable, well made self bow will cost $350-400 plus.

I've owned two Rudders:  The aforementioned flatbow, and an ELB that has developed cracks in the belly.  Starting to see why RB went out of business!  ha ha ha  I'm hunting with the ELB this year because I don't haven a good alternative, but I'll be retiring it after this hunting season.  Hopefully it will hold together long enough to put an elk in the freezer.  It's a shame--they were both sweet shooters. 

Anyway, thanks for the input.

T
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS

  • Member
  • Posts: 13335
  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2018, 10:35:39 am »
If that belly has compression fractures its only a matter of time before the back gives out in tension, probably sooner than later. I hate to say this, but I would be looking for a bow STAT and not rely on the ELB to limp through. It wont.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 6283
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 10:45:09 am »
I shoot off the hand. I adjust the string nock point down until I can feel the arrow go by and then move it up until I can't feel it. I thought this may maladjust my nock point but the more I thought about it the more I think it works. I also put a mark on the bow where the arrow should be. A quick glance and I can move my hand up or down until the arrow is in the right spot. Probably not good for hunting though. The less you have to think the better, I guess.
Vancouver Island
If you don't have any questions you must not be paying attention.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Future Expert
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 10:55:34 am »
If that belly has compression fractures its only a matter of time before the back gives out in tension, probably sooner than later. I hate to say this, but I would be looking for a bow STAT and not rely on the ELB to limp through. It wont.

Even with a bamboo backing?  I have a friend here who used to make bows, and he thought it would develop a hinge at some point and start shooting wonky, but probably wouldn't catastrophically break and take a finger off or anything.

I also put a mark on the bow where the arrow should be. A quick glance and I can move my hand up or down until the arrow is in the right spot. Probably not good for hunting though. The less you have to think the better, I guess.

That could probably work.  But yeah, it's a mystery where your brain goes when a bull elk is coming in.  I've missed two chip shots--less than 20 yards--at two bulls in two years because my brain simply checked out at the moment of truth.   So the more cognitive variables I can remove from the equation, the better.
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 31610
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 11:52:27 am »
That's the one, GlisGlis.  :OK
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS

  • Member
  • Posts: 13335
  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 01:27:19 pm »
Didn't realize it was bamboo backed. It probably wont blow violently, but it could fold up anytime. I'd hate to have that thought in the back of my mind while hunting. But, that's just me.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 31610
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2018, 01:54:32 pm »
You can save that bow by grinding the belly flat and thin and add an osage or ipe belly lam. You'll have to re-tiller.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Future Expert
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 03:24:59 am »
Didn't realize it was bamboo backed. It probably wont blow violently, but it could fold up anytime. I'd hate to have that thought in the back of my mind while hunting. But, that's just me.

No, I hear you; it isn't just you.  The trouble is there's no way I can get a new bow  in time for this hunting season (nowhere I can get one locally) so it's either take my chances with this one or skip hunting this year.  So...wish me luck.  :)
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline ohma2

  • Member
  • Posts: 600
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2018, 05:34:57 am »
Agree with pearl,put a shelf on your bow .safer and consistent. Oh yeah its not fun pulling a feather out of your hand.they say check your fletching all the time ,the first time you forget you get burned .

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Future Expert
Re: Off the Hand vs. Off the Rest
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2018, 07:02:16 am »
Agree with pearl,put a shelf on your bow .safer and consistent. Oh yeah its not fun pulling a feather out of your hand.they say check your fletching all the time ,the first time you forget you get burned .
  I always shoot with a heavy leather glove on my bow hand.  Shot my first bow for years without one; it's a wonder I never skewered myself.  Ah, to be young, dumb, and indestructible again...
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.