Author Topic: Arrows to shoot a mile  (Read 285 times)

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Online DC

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Arrows to shoot a mile
« on: September 10, 2020, 09:53:09 am »
Obviously a question for Alan ;D I'd be very interested in a few specs for the arrow you used. I can't imagine anything but steel taking the compressive forces needed to push an arrow almost 2000 yds but I don't think you used steel. I can imagine the string splitting the arrow and having the two halves dropping on the ground. ;D Any info you'd be willing to share would be very interesting.
Vancouver Island
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Offline Badger

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2020, 09:57:17 am »
  Allen posted some good pics of his arrows on the flight shooting page on facebook. They are carbon fiber solid rods. Very short about 10" they appear to be.

Online DC

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2020, 10:23:29 am »
I can find a half dozen Flight facebook pages. Do you have a link please?
Vancouver Island
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Offline Badger

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2020, 12:07:58 pm »
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3738060809542067&set=gm.2637070553213318&__cft__[0]=AZWc5bCUkgJmd8mJw3-k28dlaxG94LQyFHdHgJqn2iKZROZU5i5ibKSWYW7q0VcRNaaA3jWuox4h7y-45oau79tLsd2OEX0wWs5huvyHJJazzFXVN9rDXP3e1yB1I9dMQWkejT_agZVBwApUKDmUuIfr9W-0jRaEXLZFqRh7cawsyEvy2eZnOcvrewa810Vw280&__tn__=EH-R

Online DC

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2020, 05:39:32 pm »
 Those a really neat. And tidy :D They are long bullets with fletching. Are they barrelled or am I seeing things?
Vancouver Island
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Offline avcase

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2020, 06:28:57 pm »
I am used to getting funny looks when I call these arrows. Haha!

The side view profile is airfoil-like, or resembles a stretched out version of an aircraft external fuel tank. The thickest part of the arrow is .186Ē diameter, and this is forward of the center of the arrow. It then gradually tapers to a .125Ē diameter nock, which is small as I can go to fit a string. The best performers are about 115 grains and short as I can get them. They are overdrawn as much as three times their length. The point has to be perfectly balanced on a thin transparent Mylar rest. At release, there is nothing supporting the arrow and the arrow and string just blow through the arrow rest, so it needs to be perfectly aligned and balanced or it will tumble or smash into the bow.

The arrows are also on the edge of aerodynamic stability with long stainless steel nocks shifting weight to the aft end. I take down the corners on one side of the leading edge of the vanes with a diamond hone in order to induce a very mild spin. This spin is the only thing keeping the arrow from tumbling when it slows down at the maximum height of its trajectory.  It is tricky to get this just right. What works well at lower altitudes doesnít always work well at higher altitudes. This trades off some arrow speed for lift and drag so that the arrow lands as softly as possible. Otherwise, it is just gone underground, never to be seen again.

I have had arrows fail on release, and the arrow usually disintegrates so thoroughly that it looks like the bow hacked up a puff of black smoke. Good protective foot shields are essential!  The bow is cratered with pock-marks, gouges, and embedded razor blades after years of abuse. It adds character.

It is a fun hobby.

Unfortunately, I donít yet know how to transfer what I learned about making these tiny carbon arrows to primitive flight arrows.  I miss making primitive equipment, but I found I can only focus on one thing at a time.

Alan

Online DC

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2020, 06:58:47 pm »
Thanks Alan. If you mounted a chrono on the front of your bow it would look a lot like my shooting machine :D
Vancouver Island
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Offline bownarra

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2020, 12:23:32 am »
Turkish arrows should get you halfway :)

Offline avcase

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2020, 12:28:42 am »
Thanks Alan. If you mounted a chrono on the front of your bow it would look a lot like my shooting machine :D

Iíd have a chrono mounted in front of I could find one light enough!  One of these days Iím going to get one of those LabRadarís that can give speeds over the first 40 or so yards.

Alan

Offline bownarra

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2020, 02:19:47 am »
How on earth do you find them again is my question!!! What draw weight is your footbow Alan? I see what you mean about good foot protectors now....that thing is nuts!

Offline avcase

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2020, 04:13:24 pm »
How on earth do you find them again is my question!!! What draw weight is your footbow Alan? I see what you mean about good foot protectors now....that thing is nuts!

There are bits of arrow and razor blade vanes embedded all over the bow riser and foot shields. There is one recent gouge in the metal riser that is a half inch deep, and it has me re-thinking the shields. I think this happened with one of my last shots at Smith Creek.  I remember feeling like I was sprayed with what felt like tiny bits of broken glass at release. I Checked myself for damage, and saw a shattered half of the stainless steel arrow point lying next to me. I picked it up and it was so hot that it sizzled my finger tips. It almost felt like I grabbed the end of a hot soldering iron.  I made some adjustments afterward which has really helped prevent these kinds of misfires. So I am expecting much smoother shooting next time.

To answer how the arrows are found, the most important thing is accuracy.  The closer I can group the arrows so they fall along a line, the easier it is for the search team to find them. I can usually keep the arrows within a few yards of the line As long as there isnít any significant cross wind.  I also have someone take notes on each shot. They record the arrow serial number, the wind direction and speed, the draw length, and the shape of the hole the arrow leaves in the paper holder. This helps guide where other arrows probably landed relative to any that were found first. I keep a of this information for each of my arrows, and that gives me a pretty good idea of how far out it probably is. Assigning permanent serial numbers to the arrows, and keeping a log of the shots has been extremely valuable for the development of better performing arrows.

The most important key to finding the arrows is to make sure they are shot in a place that has the best surface to stop the arrows above ground. The ideal surface should also be smooth and uniform in color. Color variation and a broken uneven surface is like camouflage. It makes it almost impossible.  This is where I have failed repeatedly, and the reason I lost so many arrows this year. Next year, I would rather spend an extra hour or two scouting out the surrounding area before shooting so that shoot direction will give the best chances of finding the arrows. This is a much better use of time compared to wasting many hours of the field crewís time to find just a fraction of the arrows shot.

I will not plan to shoot this bow at Bonneville again. Bonneville is great for flight shooting wood arrows or much longer arrows, but it is just futile shooting these tiny extreme distance arrows.

I donít know the draw weight of the bow limbs I shot. I hadnít finished them in time to take the usual force-draw curve and chronograph testing. I was pretty nervous shooting untested bow limbs. They seemed relatively light in draw weight. I am still cleaning up my shop, but I will measure a force-draw curve and report back.  I am curious also!

Alan

Offline tradcraftsman

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Re: Arrows to shoot a mile
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2020, 10:43:06 am »
Arrows going underground, or exploding !?!?!?!!!

That's razorblade fletching?

This project is starting to remind me of Rocket Boys.