Author Topic: Asiatic Composite Build-Along  (Read 54054 times)

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Offline tom sawyer

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Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« on: October 02, 2006, 12:39:30 am »
Thimo gave me the bug to try one of these things.  Its a composite with gemsbok horn belly, bamboo core, sinew backing, black walnut handle and siyahs.

First I made myself a 36" bamboo slat, about 3/16" thick.  Then I made the black walnut siyahs, about 8" long and at a modest 30 degree angle.  I spliced them to the core with a 4" v-splice using resorcinol.  Then I glued a walnut reverse handle on the core and put a little backset in it while I was at it.  This is a typical construction.

I procured a gemsbok horn and unfortunately when I was flattnening the halves it split on me.  So I cut it in fourths, giving me skinny strips when processed.  I got the idea to cut the strips in two and spliced them on the working limb only.  This way I could use only two of the four strips I got from that horn.  You only need horn on the working limbs so I had enough.  I mostly prepped the horn strips with the belt sander, and glued them on the limbs with resorcinol.

That's where I'm at now.  The horn strip glueup is drying tonight, tomorrow I'll be ready to sinew.  I'll reverse string it a bit to get the sinew going in the right direction.  I plan to make sinew strips like the Korean bowyers make, and apply them to the back.  I'll probably also round the edges of the back of the core, to give it a less square appearance.  I'm going to go heavy on the sinew, and comb it fine before I use it.  I already have a bunch processed.

Here's some pics.

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/62tomsawyer/Asiatic%20Composite%20Bow/

Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2006, 01:50:23 am »
Thanks for posting it. I realy enjoyed it. Looking forward to the rest. Justin
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

ratty

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2006, 08:01:02 am »
Thimo gave me the bug to try one of these things.  Its a composite with gemsbok horn belly, bamboo core, sinew backing, black walnut handle and siyahs.

First I made myself a 36" bamboo slat, about 3/16" thick.  Then I made the black walnut siyahs, about 8" long and at a modest 30 degree angle.  I spliced them to the core with a 4" v-splice using resorcinol.  Then I glued a walnut reverse handle on the core and put a little backset in it while I was at it.  This is a typical construction.

I procured a gemsbok horn and unfortunately when I was flattnening the halves it split on me.  So I cut it in fourths, giving me skinny strips when processed.  I got the idea to cut the strips in two and spliced them on the working limb only.  This way I could use only two of the four strips I got from that horn.  You only need horn on the working limbs so I had enough.  I mostly prepped the horn strips with the belt sander, and glued them on the limbs with resorcinol.

That's where I'm at now.  The horn strip glueup is drying tonight, tomorrow I'll be ready to sinew.  I'll reverse string it a bit to get the sinew going in the right direction.  I plan to make sinew strips like the Korean bowyers make, and apply them to the back.  I'll probably also round the edges of the back of the core, to give it a less square appearance.  I'm going to go heavy on the sinew, and comb it fine before I use it.  I already have a bunch processed.

Here's some pics.

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/62tomsawyer/Asiatic%20Composite%20Bow/




excellent  ;D  i cant wait to see the finished bow :) :) :)

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2006, 10:58:18 am »
I don't know if this orientation of horn will work, its a gamble.  I do have the strength of resorcinol glue going for me, I'll go with hide glue on my next attempt at one of these.

I got the clamps off this morning and cleaned everything up on the belt sander.  I posted one additional pic of the horn strips on the belly, nothing specatular but just documenting the process.  Next up, sinew.  Then the hard part, waiting for that to dry/cure.

I also have to make something for the belly side of the handle, since I didn't run horn over it.  I may use wood for that area.  It definitely needs to be reinforced as it is skinnier thn the limbs and right now it appear that it'll be the weakest part of the bow.  A nice stiff piece of wood, or maybe some cow horn that I have.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

huntersim

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 12:57:32 pm »
Good idea using the horn the way you did TS. I don’t think it was a gamble at all.

If you don’t mind me asking, why did you choose to glue the horn first and then sinew?

G Doane

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 02:03:47 pm »
seems that the horn should cover the splice at the siyah, no ??
only having read about building such a bow it seems that would make sense.

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 02:33:46 pm »
Glen I wish I had enough length to do that.  But I made the siyah with an arch (top center) from the beginning of the splice, so it is going to be pretty stiff in that glue line.  My thinking is that I'll only get bend up to the siyah and not into it.  I'm going to wrap the spot pretty thick with sinew to try and bolster things, but I may glue a little something on the belly side of the splice first.  I have the really bumpy parts of both of these horn "quarters", I could always make them flat and use them there.  I cut them off the pieces originally because there won't be much thickness by the time I flatten them.  Might be just the thing to glue on the v-splices.

As for why I glued the horn on first, I have several reasons.
1.  I think that is the way the tradtitional composite bowyers do it.  Gotta think they've got it figured out.  Correct me if I'm wrong on this being the order of events in a typcial Asiatic construction.

2.  Its easier to glue strips on a flat (width and length) surface.  I see the glue lines here as being a potential weak link, especially with the use of horn strips.  I was told this can be done though.

3.  I felt like by gluing the horn on the straight core, I was "splitting the difference" in terms of stress on back vs/ belly.  If I glued the horn on a pre-reflexed core, or one with induced reflex from sinew, I would be putting even more stress on the horn when I draw the bow.  Again, my horn is somewhat thin by horn bow standards and the splice thing doesn't help its strength I'm sure.  I'm not going to try for too much refelx in my sinew job either.  I'm going with rather mild specs for my first try.

4.   In gluing horn first, and then sinewing, I can round the sides with sinew and shape the bow nicely.  I'll probably round the edge of the core, and then run a thin layer of sinew over the sides and to the edge of the horn.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

huntersim

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 03:07:19 pm »
Thanks. Having never built an Asiatic bow before I had no clue.

I've talked to a few guys that make plains style horn bows and they sinew first, then add the horn. Thats why I asked.

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2006, 03:55:26 pm »
You might ask them why they do it that way.  I guess its no huge deal either way.  Probably get more reflex without the horn.  But I'm going to backstring this thing to get a bit more than I otherwise would.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

huntersim

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2006, 04:51:49 pm »
The reason is twofold from what I understand. Using a stave of wood for the core they can adjust tiller after the sinew is applied. Also, they can judge weight with the early tiller before they glue the horn on.

It looks good so far. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Offline venisonburger

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2006, 11:52:51 pm »
Should be interesting, hope she turns out to be a shooter for ya. I tried a turkish bow awhile back, I may have to try again.
VB

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2006, 12:20:36 am »
How'd that bow come out?  Was it horn belly, sinew back?

I'm worried about the bamboo core on mine.  And I noticed that one of the two siyahs, isn't aligned perfectly with the core.  Its not off center much, but it will probably be a challenge to keep the bow from twisting.  I don't know if I glued the siyah that way, or maybe the horn pulled the one limb slightly to the side.

No progress on the bow tonight.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2006, 05:01:52 pm »
Sorted sinew by length today, and combed the ends of each bundle with a dog comb.  That should make it somewhat smoother.  I will probably not sinew tonight, I have to prep some more horn for the v-splice area, and a piece of wood for the belly side of the handle.  Then I'll be ready to sinew.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

thimosabbv

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2006, 08:56:36 pm »
Tom I really like what you are doing with this. Really great stuff.

One thing about these bows I enjoy is that is teaches patience. With a capital P. For someone like me that is very good training. Tonight I am working on a Sythian style bow and I had done alot of ADD short-cutting. So I just got done stripping off all the sinew (it was still wet beneath the wrapping) and the boo, set it all aside and will begin again latter when everyones in bed. I really want to begin making some beauties.

Keep up the good work. Its great seeing someone else interested in this.

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: Asiatic Composite Build-Along
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2006, 11:15:02 pm »
Yeah Thimo, I'm wanting to speed through this but there are many details to attend to.  This is going to be great practice before I make a real bow using only traditional materials.

Tonight, all I could do was to put some thin walnut strips under the v-splice to reinforce them, and I made a handle piece by heat bending a strip of osage.  I glued it on and there was a slight gap that was irregularly shaped, so I shoved a wedge of osage in there to fill the space.

Once the glue is dry, I'll cut off the excess wood and then I'm ready to sinew.  Finally.

I have a couple more pics of the handle piece and splice covers, in the photobucket link above.  Nothing real interesting, just another step.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO