First bow - Ash Selfbow

[Tim P]

Hi Guys!

I am getting close to roughing out an ash stave for my first bow and a number of questions are popping up already.

I wanted to source my stave myself and started with a piece of Ash I found in the woods. I know it is prefered to cut down the tree yourself, but this is not allowed where I live. So I will have to make do with what I can find. There was some worm under the bark, so I chased a few thin outer rings until I got to a nice thick one and the worm holes were gone.

While drying in the last two weeks, the stave developed a bit of a propellor twist and a reflex




The stave is currently a bit more then 2inch wide

I suppose the reflex is a good thing.
The propellor twist is most severe on the end of one of the legs. but the stave is still a bit long, so can shorten the bow and avoid most of it.

I wanted to steam and recurve the tips, but I am not sure if that's a good idea on ash. The bowyers bible Vol 1 says that a recurve will make the bow much more efficient, but vol2 warns against it because it will increase the strain on the wood and result in more set, so it might not always be a good idea.

Would now be a good time to steam and recurve + straighten (after cleaning up the wood a bit)

Since I started from a branch, I have a few knots that I need to work with and around the handle, I am currently going through the soft pith in the hearth of the stave.
How should I work around the pith? just leave it? or remove wood from the belly at the handle until I have all the pith removed?




The wood is thick enough that I can probably cut out some of the knots, But on others I would weaken the leg too much. Is there a way to work with them or am I doomed and should I look for a new stave? 




Cheers,

Tim

EDIT: Pictures
EDIT2: I had a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to upload pictures. If they are distorted it is because of my first bad upload. Force reload your browser should help reload them
https://superuser.com/questions/405811/how-to-reload-a-page-in-opera-without-cache/1244423
Sorry for this

[Pat B]

Welcome to PA, Tim. The second pic with the opposing knots is very worrying. Anytime knots go toward the edge of a stave makes it difficult  to build a successful bow.
I'm going to move your thread to "BOWS" for better coverage.

[scp]

Assuming that the wood is sound enough to make a bow, I would simply thin it down to 3/4 inch for all working limb sections and 1.5 inch wide for all unbending sections. Then design a side profile that makes sense with the stave. I would not do any "correction" using the manufactured bow aesthetics. Any natural material bow from a stave should not be expected to look like a fiberglass recurve.

[Tim P]

Thanks for moving the topic Pat. I started thinning it down and hopefully I 'll come away with the 2 knots. They are mostly gone now and the stave is just starting to show some springyness when floor tillering. hopefully I end up just under the knots.

Knots:





I am not worried about aesthetics, but currently my limbs are not in the same plane. Would that not be an issue when shooting the bow? I assumed straightening the propellor twist was a must...

Propellor twist:


And what to do with the pith in the middle of the stave?

[Don W]

I usually fill what is seen of the pith beer the handle with super glue, I don't know if it's required, but at least it evens it out.

Where are the knots in the bow. If that one cluster is in the bending portion, I would think it would need to be left stuff and heavy, especially on ash.

[Yooper Bowyer]

That is a pretty wacky stave for your first bow, can you find any straight grained maple, hickory, or oak lumber?

[Tim P]

That is a pretty wacky stave for your first bow, can you find any straight grained maple, hickory, or oak lumber?

I hear you, but I am in Europe and we don't have hickory or maple (only sycamore 'Acer pseudoplatanus'). There is plenty of oak but thats always very gnarly.
We have a lot of black locus though, so I might try that next. Or maybe a fruit tree like cherry, apple or pear.

On top of that, wood is generally extremely expensive here and its hard to find something good. I'm on the lookout though...


The cluster of knots is in the middle of the bending portion in one of the legs 

I'll continue with this stave and if it breaks, at least I tried. And I 'll look for a better stave for the second try 

[medicinewheel]

Hello Tim, you won't have a problem to get  a clean straigt ash stave any place in Europe.
I wouldn't know what to do with this stave.

[Del the cat]

Looks like you are doing a good job... just ignore the pith. If you end up with a hole going through the grip, it's a "feature" or you can glue a skewer or such like in it.
I see you've already seen how the knots fell off the side of the bow... if you just keep going, a lot of the problems will resolve themselves (a bit like life! )
Del

[GlisGlis]

We have a lot of black locus though, so I might try that next. Or maybe a fruit tree like cherry, apple or pear.

Black lotus is very good bow wood and so it is apple. Depending where you are you may find hazel.
It is usually easy to find straight saplings and you can rough the bow and speed dry it

[George Tsoukalas]

That is a tough stave. I'd look for another and I've been making bows for 30 plus years.

Those are pretty big knots and are problematic when they go across the width of the limb.

I alway leave the knots a little stiffer than the rest of the limb when tillering.

I don't know what else I can say.

Jawge

[Tim P]

So I got a bit further on that wonky stave.  The knots mostly disappeared when taking off more wood. I'll post some pictures later.
Its bending about 1 to 2 inch when floor tillering now.

I think the string is too far out from the handle. Should I steam and align the limbs for a better match at the handle now before starting on the tillering tree?





---

I also have a lot of scuffs and marks left on the back from when I was chasing the rings. Is there a good way to clean this up or should I just let it be? I left part of the previous ring (spring wood) on as I didn't want to damage the underlying ring...



Tim

[Del the cat]

If you move the string across to the extreme edge of the tips and make narrow tips with an overlay you will have an acceptable string line.
Like the one on the left in the pic.
But for now (for early tillering) just tie the string across to that side, as things can shift. It's a classic illustration of why its a bad idea to narrow the grip and tips too early.
Del
PS, just lightly sand the back or use a cabinet scraper (but even that can cause nicks)

[Tim P]

Oh, So do you normally start tillering first and narrow the grip and tips somewhere during tillering then?
I though it would be easier to cut out the front profile first and then only work the belly during tillering.

Thanks for the tips Del! I 'll sand the back and then get my new tillering tree out

Tim

[Don W]

I don't have nearly the experience of most of the help you'll get here, but experience will quickly show you how much easier a flat unformed handle sits on your tillering tree, especially in early tillering. When you form it will depend if your doing stuff or bending through.

I've also tried side knocks. It's a pretty cool trick. You can make your bow much closer to center shot so it's less fussy about arrow spine.