Author Topic: Thickness vs width questions  (Read 5800 times)

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Offline PatM

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Re: Thickness vs width questions
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2021, 09:15:19 pm »
I haven't watched the video yet, but "over penetration"???
in a culture where more work was expended on arrow making than bow making, loosing a good arrow on a shoot through was painful.

This is true, but I agree with Pat. I would think a full passthrough would be the easiest to find and the least likely to break. I am trying to think of a scenario where this would not be true, and can't come up with one.

 I guess one could speculate that placing an arrow entirely in the body of a deer with nothing poking out wither side would be the safest arrow preserving shot.   You would likely be a non-hunter to come up with that though. ;)

Offline Gimlis Ghost

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Re: Thickness vs width questions
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2021, 06:22:41 am »
I haven't watched the video yet, but "over penetration"???
in a culture where more work was expended on arrow making than bow making, loosing a good arrow on a shoot through was painful.

This is true, but I agree with Pat. I would think a full passthrough would be the easiest to find and the least likely to break. I am trying to think of a scenario where this would not be true, and can't come up with one.

 I guess one could speculate that placing an arrow entirely in the body of a deer with nothing poking out wither side would be the safest arrow preserving shot.   You would likely be a non-hunter to come up with that though. ;)

I think the maker of the video says that an arrow stuck deep in the body yet protuding and bobbing around as the deer tried to flee caused more internal damage resulting in the deer stopping sooner and dying quickly.
As a few threads I've read on deer surviving for days or weeks after a through and through wound suggests he might have something there.

Seems like few of the members who post of hunting with native American type bows use bows of greater than 45-50 pound pull. The video was remarking on the power of the 80+ pound Iroquois war bows.
I've read of some Northern tribes wearing body armor of padded layers of elk hide. I suppose the greater penetration was necessary for use in war time. 
Alaskan tribes often wore armor made from chinese coins gotten in trade linked together by woven leather thongs. They also used very heavy draw horn bows in wartime.

PS
Saxton Pope found the best performing Indian bow he tested to be a 70# Yaqui bow made of unbacked Osage Orange.

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Thickness vs width questions
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2021, 07:14:00 am »
Ed ashby has don't extensive test on bow and arrow performance for hunting and he what he found was people assume the arrow cuts more if it stays inside but it doesn't, it's just false speculation. Same reason if you have a stab wound they tell you NOT to pull the object out to reduce bleeding until you can get help...just because a guy in a video claims something to be true doesn't mean it is, you need data to back up a hypothesis.
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Gimlis Ghost

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Re: Thickness vs width questions
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2021, 07:47:55 am »
Ed ashby has don't extensive test on bow and arrow performance for hunting and he what he found was people assume the arrow cuts more if it stays inside but it doesn't, it's just false speculation. Same reason if you have a stab wound they tell you NOT to pull the object out to reduce bleeding until you can get help...just because a guy in a video claims something to be true doesn't mean it is, you need data to back up a hypothesis.

I believe he was speculating on the reasoning of the Indians of the period, right or wrong, rather than stating it as a fact, though it seems to be his personal opinion as well.
He also pointed out the difficulty in getting adequate accuracy with that type of warbow due to stability at full draw. He found his aim was shaky at full draw with his replica. Not everyone can get good accuracy with that heavy a bow.
Modern bow hunting regulations suggest a minimum of 40# draw weight at 28 inches which suggests this is considered adequate for deer at most eastern woods hunting ranges. 80# would be better only if you can get good consistent accuracy under hunting conditions.
The longer war bow would be less forgiving in snap shooting and shots at running game or firing on the move according to his testing.

The Comanche preferred a very short bow with short draw for its manuverability, especially on horseback, and rapidity of fire rather than maximum power.

Those indians prefering longer bows seldom used horses in war.

The long warbows of Indians in Florida could shoot through two layers of Spanish chain mail armor, so they definitely were very powerful bows.
On the other hand some east coast tribes often used very light bows around 25# draw in war, depending on pinpoint close range accuracy rather than power, Shooting armored men in the throat, though they did have more powerful bows for hunting. The arrow heads they used were tiny compared to others I've seen.

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Thickness vs width questions
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2021, 08:55:00 am »
He is also shooting European style.
In the woods I find my peace