Author Topic: Using a thumb ring  (Read 16264 times)

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Offline jtaylor

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Using a thumb ring
« on: November 26, 2021, 07:08:28 pm »
I'm trying to learn to use a thumb ring.  I'm using the same selfbow that I shot fingers.  I shoot left handed and anchor at the corner of my jaw.

1. I started with bare shaft testing.  To get good flight, I had to use 20# spine higher than with fingers.
2. At 10 yards I'm hitting about a foot to the left.

I could probably live with #1, but #2 is too much.  Any tips or advice?

Thx

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2021, 09:42:37 pm »
Put the arrow on the left side of the bow. The way the string rolls off a thumb ring is the opposite direction it does with fingers
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Pat B

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2021, 11:34:35 pm »
Yes, what Allyn said.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2021, 05:14:20 pm »
Look up khatra, makes a world of difference.

So here's my understanding of the physics after much reading and internet scouring.  Please correct me if I'm misguided.

You're a lefty, shooting thumb draw,  nocking the arrow on the left side of the bow, correct?

When you shoot fingers, your fingers are very grippy and even the cleanest of release kicks the string left (for a right handed shooter) and this begins the archers paradox.  Tail of the shaft goes left from the get go, then the acceleration  of the string maks the shaft bend away from the riser and the rest of the paradox process ensues.

With a thumb ring, the release is so much cleaner the tail of the arrow doesnt kick away from the bow.  You can force it to do this by torquing the string or using a real light spined arrow...to initiate that kick.  Shooting thumbs your arrow generally travels down the bow rubbing the arrow pass most of the way and when the nock leaves the string, the arrow impacts to the left of point of aim for a lefty...right of point of aim for a righty.  Nock an arrow, hold the bow toward the target without sighting doen the shaft, with the bow pointed at the target, look down the shaft and see where its pointed...that's where it wants to go when you shoot thumb draw.

There's some good slowmo vids on the internet that show the above in action.

You can google khatra and get a million different confusing vids.  I'll look thru my history amd see if I can find a specific vid by a korean archer that does the best job explaining that I've come across.

For a lefty, simplified version, in the process of coming to full draw, torque your handle to the left and down.  Hold that torque thru the release.  Upon release the string will kick left and the bow pivot forward.  This will move the handle/riser out of the path of the arrow so it can fly straight.  With proper khatra arrow spine no longer matters as much.  Watch the tail of your arrow, if your timing is off, or not enough khatra, the tail of the arrow hits the arrow  pass and you see it kick to the side in it's flight before the fletches correct it.  Nail the khatra and it flies straight and perfect.

Hope this helps and isn't too confusing.  And be patient, not all of us are naturals, I've been working on thumb draw for several years off an on and still have alot of bad days.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 05:18:00 pm by Mesophilic »
Trying is the first step to failure
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Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2021, 05:39:37 pm »
Found it!!!  This should explain things alot better than I can.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XKIpXr32kP4&feature=youtu.be
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline jtaylor

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2021, 07:48:36 pm »
I'm shooting on the correct side of the bow.  Sorry, I assumed that was a given.

Meso, that might explain why I'm hitting so far to the left, but not the spine.  You mentioned using a light spined arrow.  The standard spine bare shaft snapped due to the extreme knock left impact.

Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2021, 02:24:30 pm »
Ok, so if I'm reading this correctly...you're shooting left handed and nocking the arrow on the left side of the bow?  Because if I am reading it right,  then the arrows are doing exactly what they're supposed to without khatra.

Gotta work on the khatra.

I shoot right handed and nock on the right side of the bow.  Without khatra my arrows impact way to the right.  It's frustrating, but as the khatra has improved I've watched that point of impact shift to the center of the target.

Something you can try that might help...when you start to reach your anchor point, torque the string in varying amounts and see if that helps.  I've got a buddy who shoots thumbs and he's too set in his ways to try khatra so he torques the string so hard it wraps almost a quarter way around his thumb.

I'm by no means an expert and still muddling my way through this without any mentorship to consult with.
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline jtaylor

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2021, 08:06:40 pm »
Correct.  Thumbring on left hand and arrow on left side of bow.

I'll experiment with khatra and see what I can do.  If I understand the video, I'm having the opposite of the expected results.  He said that no khatra people recommend a light spine arrow.  When I shoot a standard spine arrow, it snapped after a few shoots due to extreme nock-left impact.  I had to use an OMG heavy spine to get straight and true flight.

Thanks

Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2021, 08:23:56 pm »
Keep reporting back what works for you as you progress.   It's a heck of a journey trying to teach yourself thumb draw without a mentor and maybe what works for you will help others.

When I started I felt like I was 8 years old trying to learn to shoot all over again.  Now I feel like I'm 12.

ETA: one of several incentives for me, is ditching arm guards and not having to worry about the string hanging up on my sleeve when wearing cold weather apparel.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 08:30:44 pm by Mesophilic »
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline mmattockx

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2021, 06:15:31 pm »
I'm trying to learn to use a thumb ring.  I'm using the same selfbow that I shot fingers.  I shoot left handed and anchor at the corner of my jaw.

And be patient, not all of us are naturals, I've been working on thumb draw for several years off an on and still have alot of bad days.

Question for both of you. What is your draw length for both Mediterranean style and the thumb ring?

I've been curious about using a thumb ring, but not enough to try it yet. OP, please keep this thread going as you progress. I suspect a fair number of us are interested in how it works out.


Mark

Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2021, 10:34:02 am »
Question for both of you. What is your draw length for both Mediterranean style and the thumb ring?

I've been curious about using a thumb ring, but not enough to try it yet. OP, please keep this thread going as you progress. I suspect a fair number of us are interested in how it works out.


Mark

With fingers I pull 27" and thumb 29".  With my current Korean horsebow, it adds between 10 and 15 fps to my shot depending on how clean my release is. 
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline mmattockx

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2021, 12:18:42 pm »
With fingers I pull 27" and thumb 29".  With my current Korean horsebow, it adds between 10 and 15 fps to my shot depending on how clean my release is.

Thanks for the info. The extra performance is why I'm asking, a longer draw is a huge advantage in increasing performance. If you can work out shooting with the thumb ring that's a free 2" of extra draw.


Mark

Offline jtaylor

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2021, 12:39:42 am »
29" fingers.  30" thumbring.

Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2021, 03:19:24 am »
Stumbled on another video in slow-mo that I thought might add to this discussion

https://youtu.be/iDn7bb-OBPY
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline mmattockx

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Re: Using a thumb ring
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2021, 11:56:53 am »
Stumbled on another video in slow-mo that I thought might add to this discussion

https://youtu.be/iDn7bb-OBPY

Wow. There is almost no paradox at all with the torque applied. It shot about as clean as a modern Olympic bow that is fully center cut.


Mark