Author Topic: Practice  (Read 2877 times)

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Offline Kenneth

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Re: Practice
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2022, 07:13:46 am »
This kinda piggy backs from my "Hunt ready accuracy" thread response.  I've got enough hippy left in my from my Grateful Dead touring days to just "feel it."  I'm thankful for that, because if I engage my conscious brain as much as y'all are, this endeavor of shooting a primitive stick well would turn me into a babbling basket case. 

I played college tennis and was ultra competitive with it from 8th grade until I quit my sophomore year of college to focus on more enlightening life experiences.  I was playing like shid on a stick one match against a guy I had absolutely owned in junior tournaments...it was awful, and I had pretty much conceded that it just wasn't my day.  On a change over, my 60 year old, pot-smoking, beer drinking, crazy like a fox coach pulled me over to the fence and proceeded to tell me some wild story about hooking up with a couple of "hot chicks" in his van at a concert back before I was born.  I listened and kept waiting for him to tie this story into some Mr. Miagi-esque insight relative to turning around this ass-kicking I was receiving; the "ah-ha" moment never came.  I asked him what the heck that had to do with the price of eggs in China, and he said, "Nothing!  I've been eyeing that guy as we've been talking, and he is all kinds of curious about the great advice I've been giving you.  Buckle down, and on the next change over, go up to him and complement him on how well he is serving and ask him as seriously as you can whether he breathes in or out when he tosses the ball up on his serve.  You won't lose another game."  And he walked off cackling.

We split the next two games, and I did what coach said at the next changeover.  That dude proceeded to fall apart, and I might have lost two, maybe three points the rest of the match.

It was an amazing lesson.  Coach had effectively removed my mind from how awful I was playing and trying to figure out what I could do to change it...and we got the other guy overthinking stuff...stuff that no-one thinks about at that level of play.  Unfortunately, what we did to that guy is exactly what I do to myself whenever I try to concentrate too much on form when I'm shooting.  I know I'd benefit from some serious shooting and form training, but when it comes to this aspect of archery, I'm a freaking mental midget.  My best bet is to "clear the mechanism," do my best to not think about anything, and just focus on nothing but the spot I want to hit and let it just happen.  Its like shooting a basketball for me; I can drain jumpers all day from any reasonable distance, but put me on the line for free throws...I might make 2 of 8 on a good day. 

I don't know it is a blessing or a curse, but I'm too old to change now. 

I hear what you're saying, I also read your post in the hunting accuracy thread. Defaulting to my natural instincts has been my method in the past for dealing with problems but I just can't do that anymore, there's something in me that demands to know the facts or science behind what is happening. Back when I was attempting to be an accurate instinctive shooter, whenever I would run into a problem I would usually just ignore it and let my instincts handle the shot. I became frustrated a lot because I want to know the why, how it actually works... I also cannot make an accurate shot under any kind of pressure unless I am using a hard aiming system with a very defined shot cycle. The last big issue I had was with windage and I was so frustrated, while I was shooting angrily I said to myself a couple times screw it, I'll just do what I feel, as usual that worked for a brief time but then I fell apart soon after. I kept pushing and read online on some forums and re-watched the course I bought I finally figured it out. It had to do with the relationship between by head and eye and the string and arrow. As I pushed my head/eye right into the string/arrow it was causing my arrows to impact left and vice versa (shouldn't have been too hard to figure that one out..).

Speaking of Clay Hayes which you mentioned in the other thread I notice that he uses pre-made wood shafting with manufactured heads and machine cut fletching. That goes a long way to making aimed shots easier with a set of arrows that all weigh so close. An issue I run into with my shoot shafts with bone and homemade steel broadheads is they can weight up to 100 grains apart at the same spine so my elevation is not the same arrow to arrow. What i'm figuring out is that knowing the gap with a certain bow and average weight arrow (for me, 45# bow with 640 grain arrow) is putting all my arrows into a ballpark area on the target. So now I am taking the arrow im going to shoot or hunt with and taking a shot and seeing where it impacts and then dialing in from there. I also noticed that after that, I can set that point at the right gap and let visual instincts take it from there. Not instinctive shooting but instincts play a big role still. For me, id rather know that this particular arrow drops about three inches more so I can just account for that in my aim.

Another point you mentioned in the other thread was about how it seems easier for you to rove around shooting in the woods at random targets then in a flat field at a target face. Its the exact opposite for me, I can really dig in and start making nice groups in my nice flat yard at my hay bale target but once i'm out shooting at 3D or random shots on hills and things I struggle with estimating yardage and also I guess the thought of losing an arrow puts a lot of pressure into my shot. I guess that's one of the differences between those who are drawn to shoot instinctively vs those who want to aim. I like precision and defined boundaries. Also you mentioned the difficulties of estimating yardage. It is something I am working on. I read that maybe Art Young recommended mentally calling out the estimated yards before taking the shot. Again I don't think it is a 100 percent measured exact number one has to come up with but that instinct comes into play as well, its just im getting into the ballpark. Another way to say that is if I had to say every shot, this is exactly 17.28 yards which means I need to aim my point exactly 8.14 inches below the center of the exact middle, and taking into account that this particular arrow has a point which is .50 longer that my average so I will need to aim about two inches up, so my aim spot is 6.14 inches below... then aiming would not be a workable solution. Of course being able to say all those things and use those number in that precise way would lead one to make a precision shot but that just can't happen just like that in the context of the gear I'm shooting

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Practice
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2022, 01:48:17 pm »
your are really making it complicated,, I understand,, but just work on one issue at a time,,
Im not really even sure what your goal is,,
if you want an aiming method, thats great,, I can do that and practice that,,
I can also shoot a short draw instinctive,, its two different ways of shooting,,
i have walked through the wood with a range finder shooting stumps,, its a good exercise,,and fun,,
develop a consistant form and practice that,, I have killed deer shooting a more conventional way point on,, and also shooting instinctive short draw bows,, but I practiced alot both ways,,
if you are shooting arrows that are not matched,, then you are limited to close range hunting shots,, that pretty much solves it,, practice that,,
if you want longer range accuracy,, you will need to shoot one arrow every time that is the same,, or arrows that are matched in spine and weight,,
   shoot 100 arrows a day,, with a consistant form at close range, and then tell me what you think,, its more about the work you need to do,, than figuring it out in your head,, after you are shooting consistant,, then you will say ohhhh thats how it works,,

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Practice
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2022, 03:39:17 pm »
your are really making it complicated,, I understand,, but just work on one issue at a time,,
Im not really even sure what your goal is,,
if you want an aiming method, thats great,, I can do that and practice that,,
I can also shoot a short draw instinctive,, its two different ways of shooting,,
i have walked through the wood with a range finder shooting stumps,, its a good exercise,,and fun,,
develop a consistant form and practice that,, I have killed deer shooting a more conventional way point on,, and also shooting instinctive short draw bows,, but I practiced alot both ways,,
if you are shooting arrows that are not matched,, then you are limited to close range hunting shots,, that pretty much solves it,, practice that,,
if you want longer range accuracy,, you will need to shoot one arrow every time that is the same,, or arrows that are matched in spine and weight,,
   shoot 100 arrows a day,, with a consistant form at close range, and then tell me what you think,, its more about the work you need to do,, than figuring it out in your head,, after you are shooting consistant,, then you will say ohhhh thats how it works,,

Yea I hear what youíre saying Iím looking to practice regularly with a bow around 43 pounds Iím finding that weight is perfect for holding and aiming and a good shooting session without tiring out. Yea getting that long range accuracy I do find I pretty much have to shoot the same arrow which doesnít bother me

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Practice
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2022, 11:23:35 pm »
just keep trying and dont get discouraged,, you can really improve,, little my little

Offline StickMark

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Re: Practice
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2022, 12:35:48 pm »
43 pounds is much easier on my body than 53 pounds, and I gain 1.5 inches of draw length. As long as I adjust arrow weight, keeping the speed up, I find 40-45 pounds more accurate, and the longer draw give me more speed. I gain yardage, and out in Arizona, that helps. I agree that similar spine and weight helps at distance.

An interesting side note: This summer I did some penetration testing. Box of grapefruits, with a watermelon rind covered by leather served as the medium. I would shoot, bring the test bows back inside to avoid the 100 plus temps affecting poundage, work on my house interior, then go back out and shoot. I did this over many days.

I found myself going over the results a few weeks later, and I could not remember why the 520 grain arrow out penetrated the 550 grain and 485 grain arrows. However, I then looked at my data, and that 520 grain arrow had the first 8 inches sanded down (did this after reading Ryan Gills book).  Smaller diameter gave it more penetration. Also, I noticed more penetration when I started sharpening the broadhead after each shot. The impact sounded different too, smoother in sound.




Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Practice
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2022, 01:26:13 pm »
that makes sense,, great you keeping a record,, I used to write everything down, not so good at it now,, but it really helps,,

Offline StickMark

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Re: Practice
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2022, 06:15:30 pm »
Just need to buy a chronograph...
The importance of design and performance vs looking primarily at raw draw weight had been sinking in over the years...plus January's buck at 33 yards, and I did not shoot, and then lost him to winding me at 10 or so yards, that really made me rethink flatter trajectory for out here.

picture of that encounter's location

Offline StickMark

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Re: Practice
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2022, 06:48:55 pm »
Trouble getting a clear picture, but pictures are always nice

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Practice
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2022, 12:19:42 am »
that is a great point and consideration,, maybe a point on set up for 25,,,

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Practice
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2022, 08:05:33 am »
I think I have finally figured out how deep of a hook I need for my release. Now I just have to keep practicing
In the woods I find my peace