Author Topic: Can this backing be saved?  (Read 1408 times)

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Offline WhistlingBadger

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Can this backing be saved?
« on: April 11, 2024, 03:29:28 pm »
Got another scary crunch last night.  Now the dogbane backing sounds hollow in the same spot where it broke before (I patched over it with a couple more layers of fibers).  What now?  Have a listen to the vid and let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/rlt-TBpWSDA
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2024, 04:15:36 pm »
Is it done with hide glue? Can it be soaked in hot water, removed and reglued?
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2024, 04:21:02 pm »
Is it done with hide glue? Can it be soaked in hot water, removed and reglued?
Del
Yeah, it's hide glue.  Could I just pull the whole thing off and blue it back on in one piece?  That wouldn't be too bad.
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline superdav95

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2024, 12:27:42 am »
I would say so.  See my other post on this but I believe it is vital to have several size coats of thin glue prior to even laying down your fibers.  You may be encountering starving the wood of glue which can cause delams and air pockets and such.  Crunching sound may not be all bad if lots of glue was used but to hear a hollow sound like that seems pretty evident to me anyways.  I would strip it off and get back to wood and make sure several size coats are done.  You may have done all this the first time anyway and this still happened.  Been there and done that!  Best of luck. Hope you can get it sorted. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

superdav95@gmail.com

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2024, 01:00:15 am »
OK, will do.  I'll have to figure out a way to steam the back off, but I'm glad I don't have to take it clear down to fibers.
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2024, 07:53:55 am »
Maybe you could first try steaming that area, slathering with glue, wrapping in polythene (to stop adhesion) and tightly binding with string. Leave it 24hrs or so then remove the binding and polythene.
Dunno if it will work, but it's a quick try, better than trying to get it all off in one piece.
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2024, 12:56:10 pm »
Maybe you could first try steaming that area, slathering with glue, wrapping in polythene (to stop adhesion) and tightly binding with string. Leave it 24hrs or so then remove the binding and polythene.
Dunno if it will work, but it's a quick try, better than trying to get it all off in one piece.
Del

Might try this today.  I'm a little reluctant to steam and remove the whole thing, because I'm afraid the heat will also remove my reflex and recurves. 

Thanks for the tips, guys.  I think this bow is going to live, one way or the other.  The funny thing is, this bow isn't really intended to be the main event.  It's kind of a concept tester for a chokecherry bow I want to make.  But the whole point is to learn from it (and hopefully get a shootable bow as a bonus).  We learn from our mistakes, and I am making a lot of them!   ;D
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2024, 12:59:38 pm »
Del, how long would you recommend steaming the spot?  Just long enough to soften things up so the glue can penetrate, but not so much that it all comes completely apart...but I have no idea how long that would be.  If nobody has a number, I guess I'll just eyeball it every 15 minutes or so until it looks about right?
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2024, 04:09:12 pm »
Well, it only took a few minutes for things to start getting pretty loose.  I needn't have worried about the wood loosing its bend; hide glue comes loose a lot faster than wood fibers.  Slathered the whole thing with glue, wrapped it in plastic wrap, and bound it tightly with an ace bandage.  Will let it sit like that until tomorrow, then unwrap it and let it dry for a few days.  If it still sounds hollow at that point, I'll just strip the whole thing and start over with the backing.  If not, I'll let it dry out for another week or two then put it back on the tillering tree.
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Online bassman211

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2024, 06:32:39 pm »
Yes you learn by experimenting with backing, different woods, inducing reflex, heat treating, fire hardening, etc, etc, etc. I hope  Solved. dog bane backing works for you. If it doesn't back the bow with sinew.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2024, 08:15:47 am »
Well, it only took a few minutes for things to start getting pretty loose.  I needn't have worried about the wood loosing its bend; hide glue comes loose a lot faster than wood fibers.  Slathered the whole thing with glue, wrapped it in plastic wrap, and bound it tightly with an ace bandage.  Will let it sit like that until tomorrow, then unwrap it and let it dry for a few days.  If it still sounds hollow at that point, I'll just strip the whole thing and start over with the backing.  If not, I'll let it dry out for another week or two then put it back on the tillering tree.
Sounds promising  :)
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline superdav95

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2024, 07:59:17 pm »
Well, it only took a few minutes for things to start getting pretty loose.  I needn't have worried about the wood loosing its bend; hide glue comes loose a lot faster than wood fibers.  Slathered the whole thing with glue, wrapped it in plastic wrap, and bound it tightly with an ace bandage.  Will let it sit like that until tomorrow, then unwrap it and let it dry for a few days.  If it still sounds hollow at that point, I'll just strip the whole thing and start over with the backing.  If not, I'll let it dry out for another week or two then put it back on the tillering tree.
Sounds promising  :)
Del


Fingers crossed. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

superdav95@gmail.com

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: Can this backing be saved?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2024, 10:21:37 am »
I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks for the help!
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour