Author Topic: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check  (Read 2463 times)

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Offline JW_Halverson

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Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« on: April 01, 2024, 06:08:51 pm »
In order to get the same amount of bend in each limb, the braced tiller means the lower limb (left side) bends more. Kinda bugs me.

But I have a little more than an inch less bend on the lower limb at full draw. And once again, my eye has grown weary of looking at this tiller and I am eaten up with mistrust at what I am seeing.

This is a pyramid design so I am working on a more circular tiller for the design. Can I get your input, brothers and sisters?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2024, 06:26:50 pm by JW_Halverson »
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Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2024, 06:29:00 pm »
Oh, and because I meant to be scraping on the lower limb and ended up scraping on the upper limb, I ended up dumping a fair amount of weight in final tillering. That just sealed the deal and I intend on toasting the limbs next to raise a little more weight from the bow. That means I will be looking at another final tillering session, so we have some wiggle room left here.
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2024, 12:08:29 am »
John, do you have a shelf cut in? If not, flip the bow making the top the bottom and vice versa.  ;D
Which limb is top in the full draw pic?
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline superdav95

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2024, 01:21:39 am »
JW.  On the edit function on my pictures I superimposed circles inside your bends and to me it looks like the right tip could bend slightly more to match the left.  Looks pretty darn good to me!   I might do what pat said and flip it and make it your top limb. 
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2024, 10:47:21 am »
Proper tiller is what you have at full draw and not necessarily at brace.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2024, 12:49:08 pm »
Proper tiller is what you have at full draw and not necessarily at brace.

Limb to the right is top limb, left is bottom.

It's just weird to me that a limb would be showing too weak at brace and too strong at draw! I have had this happen before, but nowhere as extreme as this.

I guess I can flip it over since I never cut in shelves. The upper limb is one inch longer, but I suppose I could trim that inch off and fiddle with tiller once I have heat treated.
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2024, 01:26:50 pm »
Don't worry about the brace pic. That's part of the fun of wood bows. You are not making Swiss watches. If the full draw pic is what you are looking for just leave it as is. Looks like it's time for a few dozen shots then reevaluate. If you cut the inch off that one limb you will change the tiller.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Gordon

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2024, 01:49:11 pm »
Don't over think it. Tiller looks fine.
Gordon

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2024, 02:33:56 pm »
Don't over think it. Tiller looks fine.

Thatís what I was thinking Gordon.

How does it feel in the hand now?

Bjrogg
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Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2024, 03:51:19 pm »
Don't over think it. Tiller looks fine.

Thatís what I was thinking Gordon.

How does it feel in the hand now?

Bjrogg

Have not shot a single arrow through it. I am still going to toast the belly to raise the draw weight and do final tiller. Will keep ya'll posted.
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2024, 04:14:14 pm »
AROOGAH AROOGAH! OVERTHINK ALERT!  ::)
Sheesh JW that tiller is sweet... step away from the bow, drop that scraper and keep your hands where we can see them!
Del  ;D
« Last Edit: April 03, 2024, 07:19:20 am by Del the cat »
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Offline superdav95

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2024, 10:58:20 am »
Proper tiller is what you have at full draw and not necessarily at brace.

Limb to the right is top limb, left is bottom.

It's just weird to me that a limb would be showing too weak at brace and too strong at draw! I have had this happen before, but nowhere as extreme as this.

I guess I can flip it over since I never cut in shelves. The upper limb is one inch longer, but I suppose I could trim that inch off and fiddle with tiller once I have heat treated.

JW.  Iíve had this before too.  Itís frustrating.  I find I get this one bows that I heat treated with a heat gun.   I suspect that an in consistent heat treatment may be related or somehow causing one limb being stronger or weaker at full draw.  I find less of this with hot coal bed heat treat fyi.  I know you have not heat treated yet but something to keep in mind when or if you do.  I donít know that I would mess with this tiller as it is and heat treat it and reassess things.  It looks very good and it dose t appear you have taken much set either!   Will you induce some reflex when you heat treat???   
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

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Offline Kidder

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2024, 01:41:13 pm »
To me the tiller looks pretty solid. Iíd probably take a couple scrapes mid limb on the left - there is something difficult for me to put my finger on that my eyes keep coming back to in that spot. I tend to keep the bend a little more out of my fades than you have it on your left limb but I think this is more preference than anything. However, might be what is causing the difference from strung and drawn tiller.

You might try hand tillering it from here though (photograph the bow drawn in your hand and tiller off of that). How the bow sits in your hand and how your fingers grasp the string will change the pressure point from where it sits on a tillering rack and with a single hook drawing it, which will change how it ultimately bends. I am a believer that at this stage you can learn way more by feeling the pressures in your hand, combined with photos of the bow drawn than you can from even the best designed tillering racks.

The last thing worth mentioning is that I think you are right in considering trying to correct the strung versus drawn tiller. I canít say with certainty, but i believe this sort of issue affects limb timing on self bows. Limb timing issues will effect nock travel which creates its own issues on arrow flight. This may be an issue, it may not, but you wonít know until youíre shooting it. And that is also just my theory!

Iím excited to see this bow! Keep up the great work and keep us posted.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2024, 03:52:04 pm »
I used to heat treat regularly, but stopped because it generally mucks up the tiller forcing me to redo it with questionable benefits. Since stopping, no one who shoots my bows has complained or even noticed that the bows are not heat treated.
Gordon

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Hickory Dickory Tiller Check
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2024, 09:50:45 pm »
AROOGAH AROOGAH! OVERTHINK ALERT!  ::)
Sheesh JW that tiller is sweet... step away from the bow, drop that scraper and keep your hands where we can see them!
Del  ;D

 ;D

Proper tiller is what you have at full draw and not necessarily at brace.

Limb to the right is top limb, left is bottom.

It's just weird to me that a limb would be showing too weak at brace and too strong at draw! I have had this happen before, but nowhere as extreme as this.

I guess I can flip it over since I never cut in shelves. The upper limb is one inch longer, but I suppose I could trim that inch off and fiddle with tiller once I have heat treated.

JW.  Iíve had this before too.  Itís frustrating.  I find I get this one bows that I heat treated with a heat gun.   I suspect that an in consistent heat treatment may be related or somehow causing one limb being stronger or weaker at full draw.  I find less of this with hot coal bed heat treat fyi.  I know you have not heat treated yet but something to keep in mind when or if you do.  I donít know that I would mess with this tiller as it is and heat treat it and reassess things.  It looks very good and it dose t appear you have taken much set either!   Will you induce some reflex when you heat treat???   

I used my standard 1" reflex jig when I heat treated the limbs. And no, this one did not take a whole lot of set, but I didn't do a lot of pulling before I got to this stage.

I really need to set up a full-length mirror in the garage for what you call hand tillering. I maybe should also figure out how to set my camera up to take timer photos, too, so that I can get pics when pulling in hand.
I used to heat treat regularly, but stopped because it generally mucks up the tiller forcing me to redo it with questionable benefits. Since stopping, no one who shoots my bows has complained or even noticed that the bows are not heat treated.

No idea where this bow is gonna end up landing, but most likely it will be somewhere with higher humidity than I have here and heat treating is supposed to cut back on the effects of humidity on hickory and other white woods.

Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.