Author Topic: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows  (Read 199743 times)

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Offline Coo-wah-chobee

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2006, 12:48:07 am »
Keep posting on this subject-me thinks lots of people listening-bob

Offline Pat B

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2006, 11:21:40 am »
Josh, This is an excellent thread. We need it archived for future reference. When you are completely done, maybe we should move it to the "how to" section.  I know when I get started with my yew ELB(I'm not sure what weight to go with so I won't call it a war bow) that I'll be asking you lots of questions. Thanks for all you are putting into this project and for what you are shareing with us all.
  By a card scraper, do you mean a thin rectangular piece of metal. When I started useing a scraper for most of my tillering, my bows improved 100% and I didn't screw up as much.  I saw that Grizzly Products has a scraper set for $11.95. The set has 5 or 6 differant scrapers of differant configurations.
   For those that don't have and can't find a scraper, this set would be a great stocking stuffer for Christmas.     Pat
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

duffontap

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2006, 02:40:59 pm »
Thanks everyone--lots,

I'm so glad to be of some practical use around here.  I've been reading a lot on what's going on in England and it's a bit of a bummer that war bows haven't caught on in the states more.  There are many talented bowyers on this forum who are more than capable of building these bows, and most people can work their way into them over time.  Europe seems to have more shooters but fewer bowyers.  I would love it if a couple years from now we had a few more events for war bows.  I think I'll bring mine to the Longbow Safari this year.

I spent the day yesterday hand planing some hardwood shafting to the dimensions of the Mary Rose artifacts.  They are something scary!  Should I post the arrow info on this thread or on the arrow forum?

I wanted to work up something a little more specific on the Mary Rose horn nocks.  I'll try to post that soon. 

               J. D. Duff

Offline Dane

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2006, 09:42:16 pm »
Thanks everyone--lots,

I'm so glad to be of some practical use around here.  I've been reading a lot on what's going on in England and it's a bit of a bummer that war bows haven't caught on in the states more.  There are many talented bowyers on this forum who are more than capable of building these bows, and most people can work their way into them over time.  Europe seems to have more shooters but fewer bowyers.  I would love it if a couple years from now we had a few more events for war bows.  I think I'll bring mine to the Longbow Safari this year.

I spent the day yesterday hand planing some hardwood shafting to the dimensions of the Mary Rose artifacts.  They are something scary!  Should I post the arrow info on this thread or on the arrow forum?

I wanted to work up something a little more specific on the Mary Rose horn nocks.  I'll try to post that soon. 

               J. D. Duff


JD, a few thoughts about why the war bow is more popular in Europe, and presumably, England. These are thoughts, and if I take some flak, so be it.

For one thing, it is much more directly their history then ours. If you have ever gone to Europe, you literally stumble on ancient things. The raillroad bed of the small line that I took from Augsburg to the village near my kaserene was literally built for a ways on an old Roman road, and for the rest of the trip, you could see the remnets of the road from the train window. Hop in a car, and you can be at the Hastings site from anywhere in England in no time. Again, near my kaserene, there was a place called the West Woods. Ther are dozens, possibly hundreds, of burial mounds there from the defeated Magyards that Otto slaughtered. Could I find one guy in my unit who cared to go visit them with me? It was only two or three miles by foot.

Arguably, many of us of European ancestry here in the states have direct blood ties to all that history, but hey, Americans are not much for history in any case, our own, let alone from a culture 1000 years in the past. I recall from my US civil war living history days how little the general public knew about our own great conflict. I argued myself blue one time trying to convince these two guys in their 30s that the Confederacy lost the war, not the other way around.

I think that legal issues might have something to do with it, as well. A friend of mine was discussing it with me a while back. Insurance must be horrible to have an English or European longbow shoot. Lawyers grow well in our soil.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2006, 09:44:27 pm by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

duffontap

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2006, 10:47:02 pm »
Good thoughts Dane.  I think it is important that we don't steal someone else's history.  I guess the way I see it, as an archer and bowyer, everything that relates to archery history is part of my archery heritage.  The English war bow represents one of the most powerful man-powered weapons ever devised.  We as bowyers and archers can learn a lot from that history. 

I just want to share the joy that I have had exploring bows and arrows beyond the hunting context.  I'm a hunter, and I love hunting.  But, I've very much enjoyed the pleasures of other forms of archery as they stretch beyond the close of one hunting season and the preparation for the next.

              J. D. Duff

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2006, 12:27:16 am »
Interresting perspective. But I have to disagree that Americans are not interrested in history. The problem is it is not being taught in our schools! Crying shame too.  >:( Though I have met a number of Europeans that have no idea about their history either.  ::)

Now as for English history not being a part of American History, I really disagree.  My ancestors were English at one time. This country was founded on many English ideals and by the English. If it was not for the revolutionary war we would still be...English! Yes, today we are a mixed smorgosborg of many differing nationalities melding and re melding into what we call "Americans". But at the heart the central ideals and history of this GREAT NATION are the ideals and history of Great Britain. English history, up to the great split with this colony, is OUR history. As for the reason the English longbow is more prevalent and used in England than it is here, well I put it down to being more of a fad and rediscovery of the longbow based on the Mary Rose being found and all the info. on the longbow comming from its discovery. Here in the states we are surrounded by lots of native American archery and so we end up replicating that. Though back in the late and early 1800's English archery and bows were the most likely to be found on the archery range. Everything just seems to be a cyclical nature of rediscovery.

I bet you ten to one that the Longbow is being rediscovered here on this website and will become and is becoming the next big thing in archery...again!

Each generation just rediscovers what the previous one happened to forget! There really is nothing being done today which is not either being rediscovered or being built upon something invented in the past! ;D

D. Tiller

PS: I love the English Longbow!!!!
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Roger

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2006, 12:29:05 am »
Very well said JD. I like it all. The site of an arrrow in mid flight and watching it strike the mark, wether it be a target spot or the side of a critter brings fourth emotions in me that cannot be described by mere words...

Sparky

duffontap

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2006, 01:10:56 am »
Great discussion.  I was going to add step 7, but I'll refrain until tomorrow in hopes that more of you will voice your own opinions.  Let us know your thoughts on the English aspects of our archery heritage.

I'll be reading!

        J. D. Duff

Offline Coo-wah-chobee

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2006, 01:28:34 am »
 I think it really depends on how you see the situation. No question english doctrine affected and maybe still does affect american archery. Native american archery is what was common on this continent  for countless centuries-so depends on where you stand and how you see the subject and what you identify with. Nothing new in archery I agree, we are really just rediscovering what was commonplace-like in other things that date back 2000 years -- were forgotten and now are being rediscovered and are touted as new wave-bob--good subject!

Offline Dane

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2006, 09:22:12 am »
Interresting perspective. But I have to disagree that Americans are not interrested in history. The problem is it is not being taught in our schools! Crying shame too.  >:( Though I have met a number of Europeans that have no idea about their history either.  ::)

Now as for English history not being a part of American History, I really disagree.  My ancestors were English at one time. This country was founded on many English ideals and by the English. If it was not for the revolutionary war we would still be...English! Yes, today we are a mixed smorgosborg of many differing nationalities melding and re melding into what we call "Americans". But at the heart the central ideals and history of this GREAT NATION are the ideals and history of Great Britain. English history, up to the great split with this colony, is OUR history. As for the reason the English longbow is more prevalent and used in England than it is here, well I put it down to being more of a fad and rediscovery of the longbow based on the Mary Rose being found and all the info. on the longbow comming from its discovery. Here in the states we are surrounded by lots of native American archery and so we end up replicating that. Though back in the late and early 1800's English archery and bows were the most likely to be found on the archery range. Everything just seems to be a cyclical nature of rediscovery.

I bet you ten to one that the Longbow is being rediscovered here on this website and will become and is becoming the next big thing in archery...again!

Each generation just rediscovers what the previous one happened to forget! There really is nothing being done today which is not either being rediscovered or being built upon something invented in the past! ;D

D. Tiller

PS: I love the English Longbow!!!!

D. Tiller, I didnt mean to sound as dour as perhaps I did. I agree with you 100 percent, history is not being well taught in schools across the US, based on my own horrible history teachers from grade school through college. However, I came from a family that loved reading, encouraged hisotry, and it just was part of my life from as far back as I can remember. So, no matter how bad my teachers were, I still enjoyed each course.

You are right about our English heritage, in overt and subtle ways. I myself have ancestors that were English, Welsh, Scottish, French, German, Dutch, Italian, and Scicilian. Our language is English (though if you speak to an Englisman, sometimes it seems we speak a very differnt language!). Our laws are based upon English law.

But, 1,000 years ago is a long time, and one of the great stengths and perhaps weaknesses with American character is it's youthful outlook, optimism, and so on. A fifty year old building is very old here in the states,  while a 900 year old church is considered a new building in England. I cant count the number of times a great old building was torn down, to be replaced with a strip mall or whatever, and then that bit of heritage is lost forever. Perhaps that is part of why I think Amerians are as a whole not interested in history. But, yes, many Europeans are exactly the same way, and I am assuming that is true in Korea, China, Romania, and Brazil and everywhere else.

The longbow is a piece of wood, and a magical thing. But, so are just about any style of bow. That the longbow is perhaps coming back is no surprise, but like you said, it is cyclical. The warbow and it's fans maybe can be thought of as a subculture within a subculture?

Oh, JD, thanks, and I would love to see you put the arrow stuff on this thread, or make it clear where you are going to continue, if you post it in some other area, such as arrows.

Dane

Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #100 on: November 17, 2006, 11:01:23 am »
Great thread, JD. Seems like you are enjoying the process. Thanks for sharing all that great info. Jawge
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Offline Dane

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #101 on: November 17, 2006, 12:37:12 pm »
For those of you interested in such things, here is a quote from a facinating book, The Description of England, by William Harrison. (Publisher is Dover, ISBN 0-486-28275-9). Now, the longbow was in its decline at this point, but this book, written in 1587, gives a detailed description of life in Shakespear's England. This is from Chapter XVI: Of Armor and Munition

In times past the chief force of England consisted in their longbows. But now we have in manner generally given over that kind of artillary and for longbows indeed do practice to shoot compass for our pasttime, which kind of shooting can never yield any smart stroke nor beat down our enemies as our countrymen were wont to do at every time of need. Certes the Frenchmen and rutters, derided our new archery in respect of their corslets, will not let in open skirmish, if any leisure serve, to turn up their tails and cry " Shoot, English!" and all because our strong shooting is decayed and laid in bed. But if some of our wars with France, the breech of such a varlet should have been nailed in his bum with one arrow and another feahtered in his bowels before he should have turned about to see who shot the first. But as our shooting is thus in manner utterly decayed among us one way, so our countrymen wax skillful in sundy other points, as in shooting in small pieces, the caliver, and handling of the pike, in several uses whereof they are become very expert.

He goes on to descirbe artillary pieces, armor, and other neat stuff. In fact, the entire book is worth reading, and gives you many insights into life in Tudor England, which is not that far in the future from the days of Agincourt, etc.

So JD, are you going whole hog and outfit yourself as a medival longbowman, with turnshoes, riveted maile, dagger, wollen hose, etc? 
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

duffontap

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #102 on: November 17, 2006, 04:49:43 pm »
Excellent contribution Dane--thanks for that quote and thanks to everyone for your thoughts on archery heritage, and history...

I'm posting something on horn nocks momentarily.

         J. D. Duff

Offline Badger

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #103 on: November 17, 2006, 04:56:50 pm »
This really has been an enjoyable thread, really adds a lot of quality and class to the sight here. Steve

duffontap

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Re: Mary Rose Replica Bow Build-Along--An Entrance into the World of War Bows
« Reply #104 on: November 17, 2006, 05:09:05 pm »
Wow Steve, thanks. 

Oh, Dane--I'll take a wollen horse if your offering.  I had some glue-stick ponies when I was young that would have been pretty useful for arrow penetration tests, but not much else.  I totally blew that opportunity! ;D

       J. D. Duff

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