Author Topic: how long of a draw length can I get away with? (Read 8812 times)

brownhillboy · « **on:** October 21, 2008, 11:02:46 pm »

I have a small hickory stave that I decided to try and make something out of. It's only 52" long and 1.5" wide. I'm planning on making it a bend through the handle. I've already started it as basically a pyramid design with a 4" handle, 2" fades, 1.5" wide tapering to 3/4" tips. I'm thinking about recurving the limbs also. My question to some of you more experienced bowyers is how long of a draw length do you think I can get away with? Thanks in advance for your help!

Keenan · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:33:22 pm »

Much will depend on the quality of the wood of coarse. Are you going to back it? I'm not experienced with hickory so some of them southern boys will have to chime in here.
It's a fair challenge to get 28" draw from a 58" bow, but is certainly possible with several different woods. I've made a fair amount of shorties and I think you can hit 26" if you are carefull on the tiller, if the wood is good and get the whole bow working. Definitely flip the tips to help with string angle.

D. Tiller · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:41:01 pm »

Don't recurve the tips! That will get you nothing from the bow except heavier mass at the tips where you dont want it. Only time I would do that is if you are going for a bit shorter bow than that. Now what's your standard draw length? Also, where do you live? Is it a dry environment or a humid one? If dry the width should be fine. Now you might want to go for a bit shorter of a draw to keep from over stressing that wood since it is a bit under 68". May even want to put a backing on it. Best way is to try it out and see what you get. Got a picture of the stave? Might give us a better idea what you are working with.

George Tsoukalas · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:54:24 pm »

You are letting the handle bend? I'm confused about your having fades though letting the handle bend through fades can be done it's a tough tiller to get down. Are you backing the bow? Jawge

Sidewinder · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2008, 02:10:27 am »

As I understand, a true pyramid does bend through the handle, does it not? I see what Jawge is saying about fades, you won't really have fades per se in that in order to bend through the handle the thickness taper will be roughly even through out and you will taper off the sides. I have not done one that short with hickory but I know that set can be an issue so bend through the handle should help with that. I agree with D.Tiller on the nixing the recurves. I think hickory can handle narrower tips than 3/4" as well. It'll gain you better cast by reducing the weight of the tips. If moisture is an issue keep it in the hotbox in between workings and you might be able to keep set from creeping in on ya. Hope it works out, if it does it'll be a good ambush bow. Danny

Pappy · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2008, 05:50:58 am »

If you have cut fads and it bends through the handle it will probably splinter up at the fads.
I would think a 25 maybe 26 if all goes prefect on the tiller as far as draw.If it is only 51 long now by the time you cut the string nocks it will only be 48/49 n-n so anything more than that would be pushing it.It will also probably stack being that short.I would flip the tips a bit to help on the string angle.Hickory is tough,just keep it dry and tiller slowly.

Pappy

GregB · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2008, 09:02:32 am »

What Pappy said, I'd reduce that handle down where any hint of fades are very slight. You can build up the handle with leather to get some depth if you want. I also agree with Danny that in the final stages of tiller the tips could easily be narrowed to at least 1/2" if not smaller. It will result in a better performing bow. Might wait until towards the end to narrow them to give you room to tweak the string alignment...

I would think the bow should handle a 26" draw if bending through the handle, don't know about much more then that though. Maybe someone else has experienced what you're attempting.

brownhillboy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2008, 09:37:29 am »

Alright guys, I understand what you're saying about the fades. I haven't actually cut the thickness down yet, so it doesn't really have fades, but I guess I was saying there is a 2" transition in width from each limb down to the 4" handle area. I have a moisture guage which is showing about 8 percent, so I think I'm good on the moisture content. I'm getting totally opposite opinions on flipping the tips! Maybe I'll weigh the do's vs. dont's.

brownhillboy · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2008, 10:16:52 am »

Oh yeah, for those of you that are concernd about the 3/4" tips, I did that with the possibility of flipping the tips in mind. You're right that if I don't do that, that I should reduce the width. Thanks for the opionions. Keep them coming.

Justin Snyder · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2008, 10:17:28 am »

If you have already narrowed the handle you have fades. Like George said, unless you are an exceptional bowyer it is nearly impossible to get a narrowed handle bending without exploding. Right at the area where it narrows to the handle (fades) it will lift a splinter real easy. If you haven't cut the limbs to a pyramid already, don't. Leave the limb full width for at least half of the length then taper to the tips. If you are trying to get more draw you will want to re curve the limb tips somehow. If you do a traditional re curve you want to use as little limb as possible in the re curve. A better option would be a reflex deflex. The deflex will take some of the stress off the wood at full draw, while the reflex will help with the string angles. Pictures would really help.

Justin

Keenan · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2008, 11:28:38 am »

Great advice being given. Justin stated something that had entered my thoughts as well. A slight D/R profile will help. De-flexed at the handle slightly and then a gentle reflex increasing moreright at the tips. Or as I stated earlier just straight profile with the tips flipped up slightly.
The opposing view is more of a confusion of terminology. "Recurved" generally means "static recurves" (non bending) with more mass. That is what DTiller was referring to.
When a bow is that short the string angle will approach 90 deg. before full draw can be reached. Rolling the tips slightly will help keep the string from being pulled off the tip.
A D/R profile will lesson the amount of bend in the middle of the bow to start with and take some of the stress away from that area. Hope that helps.

Pappy · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:06:13 pm »

Here is a picture of a 54 inch with the tips fliped like I was talking about.They are working
tips.They pull almost out at the end of the draw. Hope this helps.This is a no bending handle
at about 25/26 draw.

Pappy

[attachment deleted by admin]

Hillbilly · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:19:05 pm »

I agree with the tip-flippers. It will help reduce stacking and finger pinch, and with one that short, there's also the possibility of the string slipping off at full draw unless you kick the tips up a bit. On a side note, why does it seem that everybody lately wants to make 50" bows?

Keenan · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:34:55 pm »

Simple answere for me Hillbilly. 25" draw if I stand on my tippi toes

Might get 28" if I striaghten my right arm behind my head

Hillbilly · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:42:21 pm »

Wasn't talking about you, Keenan

(or even brownhillboy). I'm referring to many of the new guys who come on here and attempt to make a 51" bow with a 28" draw as thier first project, which often is a recipe for failure. I've seen I don't know how many threads that start like: My 53" long 1 1/4" wide ash bow, 73# at 32" has taken a lot of set. Why??

I have a short draw too, Keenan-about 26" or so. I still like some length for stability and safety.

Primitive Archer