Author Topic: how much tip movement..?  (Read 1164 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline paulc

  • Member
  • Posts: 310
how much tip movement..?
« on: May 20, 2019, 03:44:02 pm »
..before you brace a bow?  And what do you do when the tips move about equal on the tiller board (8" give or take) but is clearly unbalanced when braced? i'll try to get a pic or two tomorrow.

Paul

Offline bushboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2078
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2019, 03:53:26 pm »
Have you floor tillered it?
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 7472
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2019, 04:12:14 pm »
  The most accurate way to know when to brace a bow is not to go by tip movement but read your tape on your tiller tree just as if it were braced, they read very close to the same braced or long string. For a bow that is 50#@28"  I like to brace it when I am reading about 50#@23". Tip movement is meaningless without several other numbers attached to it.

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 7472
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 04:37:18 pm »
   If you floor tiller your bow before you brace it you can feel if one limb is stronger than the other, they should feel and look the same. You want to get them ballanced out as soon as possible. If you are a little off when you brace it it is easy enough to correct if you left yourself enough weight on the bow to make corrections.

Online SLIMBOB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3162
  • Deplorable Slim
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 05:11:04 pm »
A bit different for me. Floor tiller well. Long string just to check and see that the limbs are balanced with one another. When they are, get a string on it. If you had 6 inches of tip movement and both limbs are balanced, getting a string on it will let you work from a low brace and inch your way up evenly. The long string can fool you. This is not meant to disagree with Steve as I think more people follow his route. This is just a little different method that I think has some advantages over long string tillering.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 7472
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 05:27:21 pm »
A bit different for me. Floor tiller well. Long string just to check and see that the limbs are balanced with one another. When they are, get a string on it. If you had 6 inches of tip movement and both limbs are balanced, getting a string on it will let you work from a low brace and inch your way up evenly. The long string can fool you. This is not meant to disagree with Steve as I think more people follow his route. This is just a little different method that I think has some advantages over long string tillering.

  Bob, the only reason I suggest that is because some people don't know how hard they are pulling or pushing when they get 6" of tip movement. A lot of times they will come in too light. I only suggest that method because it lets them know pretty much exactly where they are at. I think more people follow your method actually I did for the vast majority of my years making bows. I just switched a few years back.

Offline George Tsoukalas

  • Member
  • Posts: 8579
    • Traditional and Primitive Archers
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 05:45:57 pm »
The tips on a finished bow only move a few inches.
Anyway it is late here. Off to bed.
There are buildalongs on my site as to how I determine when the bow is ready for the short string.

http://traditionalarchery101.com

Jawge
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 04:13:35 am by George Tsoukalas »
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Online SLIMBOB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3162
  • Deplorable Slim
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2019, 04:34:08 am »
We came from the same place Steve, and then took 2 different roads. I did it your way for a long time and just kind of evolved into what I do now. No hard rules other than donít pull past a problem in the tiller. This method just allows me to spot those problems very early on. Both methods work.  The guy who taught me this craziness still bends them over his knee. Never uses a tiller tree nor tiller stick. Just eyeballs the bend.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline willie

  • Member
  • Posts: 1942
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2019, 10:09:20 am »
  The most accurate way to know when to brace a bow is not to go by tip movement but read your tape on your tiller tree just as if it were braced, they read very close to the same braced or long string.

Steve, does this method assume that the longstring is hanging down so that it is pulled from what would be brace height in the finished bow?

For a bow that is 50#@28"  I like to brace it when I am reading about 50#@23". Tip movement is meaningless without several other numbers attached to it.

I have used tip movement in my tillering of straight limbed bows and am curious what other numbers need to be attached what or designs make a simple tip deflection measurement meaningless for you?

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 7472
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 10:14:27 am »
  Willie, it is fairy accurate regardless of where the string is sitting, tight to the bow or hanging down 12". I prefer to use it hanging down a few inches. The weight of the bow is more a product of string angle than it is how far the limbs have moved. I actually do most of my tillering on my lap. I use the long string mostly just to find out how strong my bow is or to check the set as I advance. When I read target weight at 23" or 24" I know I am about 10 or 12# strong and it is time to brace it. I ignore tip movement because it means nothing unless I know how hard I am pulling and where my string is at when I am pulling that hard.

Online SLIMBOB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3162
  • Deplorable Slim
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2019, 10:29:05 am »
Iím not using tip movement that far down the road. For me itís just to let me know if I can get a string on it. The weight will be heavy and of little concern this early on. Once it is braced, tip movement IS meaningless as you mentioned.  Proper tiller and draw weight become the focus. Because the string angle is right, for me itís less likely that I come in under weight.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline willie

  • Member
  • Posts: 1942
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 10:45:59 am »
  For a bow that is 50#@28"  I like to brace it when I am reading about 50#@23".

Steve, I think I follow your method now.  the 23" in the example, is 23 inches down from wherever your longstring was hanging unpulled, not from somewhere where on the bow itself?

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 7472
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2019, 12:22:15 pm »
  Right Willie, it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, maybe a pound or two but not nearly as much as you would expect. It is by far the most accurate method that I have been able to come up with to determine how strong an unbraced bow is. It reads just about the same as it would if it were braced regardless of where the loose string is hanging.

Offline Weylin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2031
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2019, 01:36:37 pm »
I approach it much like slimbob does. I have dropped the whole longstring thing from my process. The main difference for me is that I really focus on using my fingers to feel the thickness taper. I do floor tiller but it is more to feel how strong the bow is and judge the relative strength of each limb. My main tool for determining whether the tiller is good enough to brace the bow is feeling the thickness taper. If there is a consistent taper without any obvious thick or thin spots then my first brace is usually pretty darn close to a good tiller.
Swiftwood Bows

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 7472
Re: how much tip movement..?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2019, 02:27:18 pm »
  Weylin, the thread isn't about tilering long string or otherwise it is about how a new person knows when to brace his bow, not too strong and not too weak. A newer person or for that matter anytime I am working on an unfamiliar weight or design needs something objective we can go to. In this case the long string is only referencing checking current weight of the bow.