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stone point trauma pics...

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mullet:
 Hey Dax, I don't know you or what you might be assuming about me or what you think I was getting at. But I do know, and have met both Ryan's personnably. I also know that both are excellent bowyers and bowhunters, like I said, never met you.

  What I was getting at is basicly what Mike was saying, some people don't hunt with stone all the time.  I have found, like RyanO that the game I lost was due to not being able to follow a blood trail good enough without a passthrough shot. That's why I started shooting bigger stone points and a heavier bow. I shoot mainly off the ground, mostly at hogs. It is not hard to get a clean pass through shot on a deer. Ask Chris Cade (mechlesher) or Marc St Louis. Marc wrote an article in PA on a head shot with a stone point. It hit around the forehead and traveled down into the neck. Just the tip was chipped off. Penetration is not a problem.  I still think that being familiar, and confident with all your hunting equipment is important.

  I'll be in Tenn this weekend at the Classic, Dax, love to meet you. Also, buddy go to hunting pictures of last year and I believe there is one of a dead turkey with a coral point.

Hillbilly:
I know many people who have killed big game with stone points without losing animals. I also have seen many deer with Muzzy broadheads and bullets in them that survived or were lost. I think a good shot with a good stone point kills just as dead as the same shot with a steel point. There have been innumerable animals killed cleanly with stone, and there have been innumerable animals wounded and lost with steel points and bullets. There have also been studies done that show stone points often penetrating better than steel. I have seen photos of deer ribs cut into and shattered to hell with stone points. I'll qualify this by saying I have never shot a deer with a stone point, but I sure know plenty of people who have with great results. I also know people who have shot deer with stone points with not-so-good results. The biggest critters I've killed personally with stone points were a couple of groundhogs. They died instantly and dropped in their tracks. I can't tell you how many groundhogs that I've shot with guns over the years that have crawled back into their holes and were lost. A stone point is not a stone point is not a stone point, any more than a dull steel point is the same as a sharp one. A dull, thick point is a dull, thick point no matter what it's made of, and probably isn't going to make a clean kill whether it's stone, steel, or titanium. I see no reason why a stone point won't kill as well as a steel one if the shot is good and the point is sharp like it should be. But, I'll also say that It's a lot easier to sharpen a steel point hunting sharp than a stone one. I'll also say that a .300 mag will kill a deer quicker than any of our bows with more tolerance for bad shots, but I kinda like flinging arrows.  :)

Pat B:
I have been hunting with stone points for 3 years now, but unfortunately I haven't connected yet. I will keep trying until I do. Won't fill the freezer but I am proving to myself it is possible. I know many folks that have achieved a clean kill with stone points but like with any ammunition, it depends on where you place the shot. I have not yet loosed a stone tipped arrow at an animal but my day is coming. ;)

Timo:
I've shot 7 deer with stone,recoverd 5 of them,The 2 that I didn't recover was due to poor shot placement. I possibly would have had the same outcome  with steel. Of the 5 recovered only 1 had a poor blood trail. All the others were as good as it gets! 2 fell in sight. Pass throughs no doubt are key here.Same with steel. I will tell you that 2 of the blood trails from stone were heavier than any I'd ever had.

Now maybe I just got lucky,but maybe not?  ;D I shoot steel also and yes it does appear to be sharper to touch,( as long as one knows how to get steel hair popping sharp) And I'm sure that most on here can do that very thing,but as a flintknapper I will tell you that an errant flake will not stop bleeding until you apply pressure. I had a well known knapper tell me that stone will not only cut arteries,and veins, but it will also cut capillaries cleanly,thus causeing more hemorage.I believe this to be very true. The edge of the sharpest steel is not that sharp. Alot depends on how well the head is made,mounted,and shot to be sure of proper arrow flight, then sharpened again.

True that stone on rib can cause fracture and loss of energy, but what about steel? If the edge runs along a rib on entrance doesn't it dull ? Pushing by vitals? Losing energy also?

And why would I want to take a shot with steel that I wouldn't take with stone? Aren't we all suppose to wait until the right oppurtunity presents itself? When that happens, I don't think it matters what head you are shooting,only that it is as sharp as you can make it, and that you have the confidence to put it were you want. I am a firm believer that stone is just as effective as steel.

Sorry to carry on so much. This is a good topic to discuss.

hawkbow:
 Twisted limbs....we can hunt with stone points for turkeys, predators and small game here.. fortunately I have hunted all over the west and have had lots of luck with stone besides here at home..  i have taken elk,mule deer and whitetail deer, coyote, fox badger, bobcat and turkey... ducks geese and pheasant with stone I have also seen bear and moose and lion taken with stone... so I guess I am sort of sure of their ability to kill quickly and efficiently .... by the way brother,I value my brothers of the bows opinions and am not easily offended.. ;D hawk a/ho

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