Pine pitch

[walkabout]

just a quick question, if one doesnt have beeswax would they be able to supplement fibres from a plant which has a naturally occuring wax, such as say the needles off of a shrub? i ask because our shrub when trimmed the needles still retain much of their waxy nature and will not crumble easily.

[agd68]

Does it have to be pine pitch or can you use Spruce or Fir pitch

[Pappy]

I would this so.Jesse puts fiber in his anyway.I got mine done.It didn't make as much as I thought it would.By the time I cooked it off and cleaned and strained it.But made enough to last a while.I used bees wax and char-co from a piece of burnt Hickory ground up fine.Turned out pretty good.
Jesse use some to mount a couple of napped blades. Held them great. Now I need to find some more. agd68 you must have been posting while I was.I am not sure on that,I am sure someone will know,I was thinking the same thing,I fine a lot on wild cherry trees,it's sticky but not sure how it would work.
   Pappy

[jamie]

pappy a great way to test your pitch is to put some on a piece of paper. when it cools bend the paper a bit and if it cracks its too brittle, if its tacky its too much fat, ya want somewhere in the middle. peace

[Pat B]

I believe any conifer pitch will work. I'm not sure about fruit tree pitch. I know you can make varnish with the fruit tree pitch. I have a plum that is oozing and was gonna see what I could make from it.
  For varnish dissolve the pitch(fruit or conifer) in alcohol, strain out the impurities and store in an air tight jar. Again, the more brittle the raw pitch the better.

[Tsalagi]

Pat, those sap chunks look familiar. Is that the pinyon sap?

[Pat B]

Nope! I think that is plain old Tennessee jack pine.    The pinion pine sap you sent me does make very good glue and varnish. It has a darker amber color too.
..and smells real good! 

[walkabout]

if the pitch is still tacky at room temperature does it need more cooking? the batch i just made will harden pretty well but wants to stick to surfaces i set the sticks on

[Pat B]

When done and cooled the pitch should be hard and brittle, not tacky at all. If you make glue or varnish with the tacky stuff the finished product will also be tacky. It will eventually harden up naturally but that could take a while.

[jackcrafty]

Pat knows his stuff on pine pitch, so I can't add much here.

I will say that adding beeswax lowers the melting temperature.  That's important around here where temperatures inside a car can reach well over 150 degrees.  I've had pitch/beeswax glue melt and run off completely from arrows left in my car.  I don't know the exact temperature when beeswax will melt, but it's much lower than pitch.

Consequently, I use very little beeswax now.  I need to experiment with fat or tallow, like Jamie mentioned.  My pitch glue is brittle.

[jackcrafty]

OK, I looked it up. 

Pine rosin usually melts at around 165 degrees with a flash point of 400 degrees.  Beeswax melts at about 145 degrees.

[Marc St Louis]

If your pitch is brittle then it needs more fat or beeswax or it will break off from whatever you put it on over time.  I use about 50% ~ 60% resin, 30% ~ 40% beeswax and the rest charcoal, depending on how dark I want the pitch.  The fat or beeswax not only makes the pitch flexible it also helps it to stick and stay stuck

[Pappy]

Ya the first I made was brittle and broke off the first time I shot an arrow,I used about what you said Marc and it seem to work very good.I used bees wax,may try the deer tallow on the next batch.I just have trouble finding the pitch to start with in enough to do much with. Got loads of pines on my farm and 50 or 60 around my house,I just need to figure out how to make them
bleed  .I was thinking I would trim some big limbs in the spring when the sap is really rising might be the best time,what do yall think about that 
   Pappy

[HoBow]

Pappy,
If you hit it with an ax in the spring a couple of times, it will bleed pitch pretty good all summer....or you can just cut back some limbs. 

[Marc St Louis]

A good source of almost pure sap is the cones.  They are covered in pure, clean sap, I've just got to figure out an easy way of getting it off.  I figure filling a big pot with a bunch of them, putting a lid on and just heating them up will do it but it will still be messy and you can kiss the pot goodbye for cooking after