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We nead a Chainmail penetration test!

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D. Tiller:

--- Quote from: sagitarius boemoru on May 15, 2007, 01:38:02 am ---Since I m evil as usually, I ll ask a different question.

What is objective not that of the test, but the one upon which you decide that the setup is correct or not?
Ultimatelly 1/2´´ shaft shot from 75# is lazy bitch, but I m certain it will pierce chainmail. Then....What will actually be conclusive.


J.


--- End quote ---
Hi Jaro;

Actually what we are testing for are the minnimums of early warbow weights and shaft diameters. We will not be shooting just 1/2" diameter shafts but also 3/8" andf possible smaller. The idea is to try and find out where the warbow started from and what the minimums were for shooting distance and punching through chainmail. I've seen lots of test done on late Mary Rose designs shooting 1/2" shafts but none trying to find out what was being used at the beginning of warbow use when chainmail was what had to be defeated.

Guys this is a minnimum test and not a maximum test. We should stick with woods used durring that age to make it as realistic as possible. Also, finding the socket diameter of the bodkins used durring that time will give us an idea of what diameter shafts were being used at the time and what we should also aim for in our tests.

Dont think we will nead a full wrap arround set of chainmail for the test. just something to cover the chest area we can attach to a soft target. Then set the target at different ranges and see which bows and diameter shafts will punch through the links at the different distances. I was looking at the long needle bodkin point since this seems to be the design that was used early on at the beginning of the use of the warbow.

Unfortunatly I dont have the bows or equipment that spread the gambut so nead some help in trying this out.

David T

Loki:

--- Quote ---We should stick with woods used durring that age to make it as realistic as possible. Also, finding the socket diameter of the bodkins used durring that time will give us an idea of what diameter shafts were being used at the time and what we should also aim for in our tests.
--- End quote ---

What about type 1's?if i'm not mistaken it was the main warhead used by the Saxon's and there must be a reason for the reinforced spine,why not for penetrating mail?allthough the Viking's of the Danelaw used a longBodkin similar to type 7's.
The battle at Halidon Hill ( Hali-dun in Saxon) was were Edward earned his spurs tactically,but were Bodkins in use at this time? The Northern Army's from Northumbria,Durham and Yorke mainly fought against the Scots,not the French,that was the southernors.I dont think the Northernors had a need for armour piercing heads like the men fighting the French did,i think Type 1's will do very nicely against a Scot wearing his mail (if lucky) and/or a jack (doubtful).

Miles:
Hi D.Tiller,

I have riveted and butted chain mail it is a relatively weak defense against bows you'd be surprised how weak it is we had a kid with a 24 pound little bear recurve bow and some Kmart target arrows shooting from about 20 yards penetrating the armor.

I don't like shooting the riveted chain mail because the time it takes to repair the armor in the cost of the armor hauberk cost over $800.
There's all sorts of factors going in to the defense of chain mail likely patterns ring size and metallurgy.
Most of this armor was used in conjunction with other forms of armor for example jacks(a later period armor of bowman)  Which comes in several configurations and is basically multiple layers(12 or more) of linen with some form of padding material like grass.

I do not have much information on the exact layers of material that would have been warned in that earlier time period in conjunction with chain mail figure will be linen and wool.

But you're on the West Coast, and I'm on the East Coast so I'll have to pass supplying you with the chain mail target .


Miles

mullet:
 Iv'e been reading this and really know nothing about mail except of the Conquistidors and what you guy's are discussing. Which by the way is fasinating. I do know and it is a fact ,that the Timuacan Indians in Florida at the time of the Spanish exploration were reported to be shooting 90 to 120# bows.They were shooting cane arrows and there is numerous recordings in history of the chainmail being penetrated by cane arrows,splintering and soldiers dieing from infection in the tropical heat.This includes Hernando DeSoto hisself,buried in the Mississippi River.The arrows in question were almost always fire hardend sharpened cane points.

Len:
Some great info on alternative armours has surfaced but its still not the type of thick padded garment we see appearing in the mid 12thC. However it probably seems I'm splitting hairs here so we can safely say some form of padding needs to be under the maille for the test. Having seen what an arrow 11/32 with short and long bodkins shot from a 60lb bow will do to maille I'd say you would need a lot of padding to slow an arrow down and I would say to much padding would have to be worn in most circumstances to bo practicall to fight in.

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