Author Topic: New Member here with a few questions  (Read 6872 times)

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huntsmanlance

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New Member here with a few questions
« on: January 09, 2008, 03:54:24 pm »
Greetings all, my name is Lance and like i said before i am new here....and am very excited!  I have been doing medieval recreation for many a year but have never took the plunge into making a ELB. Because of my passion for the medieval era i of course would dearly love to own a true yew ELB.

I have shot a few ELB's but have been very disappointed with their performance.....very slow and with allot of handshock. Of course i havent tried one of the better made bows made by Gerald Welchman or Don Adams....which i am told are two of the very best makers.

I would like to own a bow that is 120# + but it would only be mainly for show and to show off at the events i go to....but my main focus would be a bow that i would use at the tourneys i go to and for hunting. So i am looking at a bow that would be 60# to 65#.

A few of the questions i have are....

What is a good speed to expect with a 60# bow and using an arrow that is 600 grains?

Would a ELB with some reflex perform better....speed wise....than a true D shape? (i will never compete in the tourneys that require only a true D shape)

If i do take the plunge into making a bow is the direction that John Strunk provides in the Bowyers Bible a good place to start?

I have found some bows that are basically tillered made from IPE and bamboo ( Rudder Bows ) but are there any out there that are made from yew?

If i do go with a bow with bamboo as a backing would i be able to sand down the nodes and add a layer of raw hide so it would have a more traditional  look? I dont have anything against the look of a bamboo backed bow but for my own taste i would like one that isnt obviously bamboo.

Does bamboo add any better performance compared to a yew bow with the sap wood?

I am not a true speed freak but with all things being equal i would prefer a bow that has a flatter trajectory.

Thank you all for your help!

Lance


Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2008, 08:21:10 pm »
Lance, Traditional Bowyers Bible is a great source for info.
Yew is pretty expensive, but if that is what you are after you can buys staves and build a self bow.  You can also build that style of bow with other woods and get great performance for less money.
If you want a rawhide backed bow, build a rawhide backed bow to start.  Rawhide is a great backing and can be purchased from some of the suppliers in the classified section.  Justin
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Offline deerhunter97370

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2008, 01:29:27 am »
Lance Welcome to the PA boards. I dont know any thing about speed but the Bowyers Bible is a good place to start. And I wouldnt back a Yew bow if there is nothing wrong with the sap wood. If you only have heart wood Id back with hickrory. Joel
Always be ready to: Preach, Pray, or Die. John Wesley

Offline markinengland

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2008, 05:04:44 am »
Lance,
I will have a go at answering your questions. Others may feel differently as opinions differ.
If you are dissappointed by the performance of an ELB this could be for a number of reasons. They could have been poor bows. As well made english style longbow should shoot well and with minimal or no handhsock. It will however not shoot as snappily for the draw weight as a modern recurve or as smoothly. When compaired to a modern bow an ELB could thus be dissappointing, but it can only be what it is, a traditional simple wooden bow.
There is a huge range of Longbows in use here in the UK. Some made for the re-enactment market here are terrible. May eb the same whereever you are. Reenactors want something that looks the part, but often want low performance in order to be allowed to use them. A reenactment longbow almost certainly is not a proper longbow by anyones definiton. If these are what you have tried I am not suprised that you are dissappointed.
A well made longbow, even at a draw weight of 45lbs or so can send a target type arrow well over 200 yards. There are many good bowyers, but there are also many bad ones. If you see a bow you like and the archer using it also likes it then that may be a good reference.
120lb bow! if you do get one or make one make it very long. This may make it perform less well, but it will be a lot easier to draw the weight and will be more durable.
I cannot really answer your speed question. I have never measured arrow speed. All I can say is that the bows I have made have been fast enough. I have seen some very poor bows with huge amounts of set and very poor cast. This is why it is a good idea to follow a good pattern when you make your own, or to buy from a bowyer whose work you have seen.
An ELB with some reflex may perform better, but may be less accurate. The arrow may be faster but not go to the right place. My personal preference would be a longbow that had a little set once shot in, maybe an inch or so, spread evenly along the working limb. This would indicate that the bow is evenly stressed and is using as little wood and mass as possible to do the job. It will aslo be pleasant to shoot and stabel, forgiving and accurate.
I think that Pip Bickerstaffe's book Heritage of the Longbow is probably the most helpful in terms of information for making an ELB.
Some ready made "ELB" balnks sold in the US are not really ELB pattern. Some are basically american longbow style. Make sure you would be getting what you want. It really isn't too hard to get some Ipe, get a hickory or bamboo backing and make your own bow from start to finish. I do not know of people making yew bow blanks.
I would advise that you get at least three of four laminated bow under your belt before attempting a self bow. Make a few self bows in hickory and ash before ruining your first yew stave! Almost everyone has done this! It really does make sense to practice and improve your skills on cheaper woods before trying the most difficult bow in yew.
I would not advise sanding down the nodes on bamboo. bamboo is there to be the backing and gives power. Sanding down the nodes gives areas of power and weak areas. i doubt that a rawhide backing would prevent the bow breaking where the bamboo fibres were cut through. If you want a traditional look use hickory as a backing material. This can look very like yew sapwood. A hickory backed Ipe bow, or hickory backed Osage looks very nice.
A good bit of yew with intact sapwood needs nothing else. they are the perfect natural compression/tension companions. Adding bamboo would eman that you need to violate the growth rings and add weight (bamboo is heavier than yew) for no real gain and the bamboo may well crush the yew belly and cause chrysals.
If your heart is truly set on a bow with a flat trajectory they perhaps you should look for another style of traditional natural material bow that would give you this. A longbow can shoot flat, but perhaps not as flat as you are used to. After a while of shooting longbow you do adjust to the somewhat different trajectory. Though more challenging to shoot well, longbow can be great fun.
Mark in England


Offline Pat B

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2008, 10:29:57 am »
Welcome to PA Lance. I recognize your name from TradGang. I have only made one war bow so I am definitely not an expert but there are lots of knowledgeable folks here to help you out.     Pat
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

huntsmanlance

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2008, 02:57:15 pm »
Hi ya Pat! and thank you everyone for the welcome and advice. Mark thank you for the help! I have been reading most of the post on here to get the feel of making a warbow and when i am ready to start my own bow i will certainly be asking for more advice! I work with leather quite a bit but never was introduced to working with wood. Thus i dont have any of the tools....bandsaw and such. I have read and read about about making bows, books and post such as yours and like Pat said i have been on Trad Gang for quite some time.

Yes Mark i would have to say the bows i have shot were not made well. but it wasnt until i started asking on Trad Gang about the ELB's that i was told that a properly tillered bow would perform far better than i had experienced and...not shake the teeth right out of your head with the hand shock!

As for the performance difference....yes i have to admit that i am used to the modern recurves and longbows....i am starting to realize that if i get a very well made ELB and just stick with it i will get used to how they shoot and not even think about  comparing them to the modern ones after awhile. I will say that i have shot some well made selfbows in the flat style that just....had a "feel" to them which you dont get from a modern glass bow. It is like they have a life to them....but that isnt really the best way to describe it....but i am sure you out there that make them understand.

I have been into the whole medieval thing for quite some time. Just look at my homepage. I have been shooting traditional archery for around 7 years now but only recently got serious about reenacting the archery part. Here in Oklahoma....which for Mark's sake...is right smack in the middle of the States and there just isnt anyone close to me who is also into this. Most of the groups here that do do medieval shoots are very inclusive and dont say a thing about people using recurves and such.

But for me personally i want to do it right. So I can experience the feel and adventure of being in a huge expanse of woods with no one else around and being able to roam, camp and hunt where ever my feet take me.

SO....any recommendations for a bowyer? I have been looking at the bows Gerald Welch of Welchman Bows makes and have a good feeling about them, but at around $800 that is quite a price to come up with....especially when you have twin 3 year old girls!  :o

Again thanks for the welcome all and for listening to my ramblings!

Lance

duffontap

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2008, 03:41:34 pm »
Welcome to the forum!

John Strunk builds a fabulous English Longbow but you'll notice that the chapter in the Bowyer's Bible is about the 'Yew Longbow' and the dimensions given are American and not English.  This has created some confusion for new bowyers who think ELB's have a narrowed handle--they do not. 

English longbows have excellent cast but they must be made well.  Perfect tiller should be job 1, and nice light tips are very important as well.  My last ELB was 80#'s when I finished it and it would shoot a 650-700 gr. hunting arrow about 215-220 yards.  No hand shock. 

Most of us can relate to your desire to make instead of buy.  A recent bid for a 150# warbow replica from D. Adams (US not UK) was $3,500.   ;D  I just thought that was funny. 

        J. D.

huntsmanlance

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2008, 03:50:25 pm »
Thanks J.D. i have seen some of his bows for sale but they were all tillered to 27" and so....i have a 29 1/2" draw and that has really cut down on the bows i could get without causing a set.....as i have been told because i am new to these.

I did find a Welchman War Bow for $600 but it was 70" long and also tillered to 27". On Geralds site he recommends a 73" + bow for my draw length.

I have looked on the classifieds here but they dont allow used bow sells. I have also been looking on the other traditional bow sites that have classifieds for people selling used bows and on E-Bay but havent seen many ELB at all.

Any suggestions?

Offline markinengland

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2008, 06:48:17 pm »
You could buy from the UK. Trouble is that airmail and customs are really high.
Why not make one, those of us who make longbows would be more than happy to talk you through the process.
A good simple hickory backed hickory longbow would be quite simple to make and do exactly what you want for little money and a great making experience.
Mark in England

duffontap

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Re: New Member here with a few questions
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2008, 07:23:43 pm »
You could buy from the UK. Trouble is that airmail and customs are really high.
Why not make one, those of us who make longbows would be more than happy to talk you through the process.
A good simple hickory backed hickory longbow would be quite simple to make and do exactly what you want for little money and a great making experience.
Mark in England

Yep, and after you've made 10 of them, you'll be hooked like the rest of us.   ;D ;D

         J. D.