Author Topic: phragmites arrow build a long  (Read 13593 times)

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Offline Josh B

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phragmites arrow build a long
« on: November 17, 2014, 11:24:23 pm »
I promised to do a build a long with phragmites a few weeks ago and just managed to get home and grab some seasoned phragmites.  This one is actually a couple yrs old.  I recommend at least a month drying time.   I always cut at the very end of the growing season to ensure full maturity.  You'll know if it's not mature within a week of cutting it because it will shrivel up if its not.  I believe this piece came from east st Louis il.  Always look for the tallest culm with the smallest diameter base.  You'll want to use the base of the culm for your arrow as the higher portions have paper thin walls.  Even the base of the culm will be pretty thin walled compared to cane.  Another thing is to avoid the crooked node pieces.  The straighter the culm, the better.  But the nodes are really difficult to straighten.  The first pic is the chosen victim for this project.  You will notice the extreme dog leg at one end.  That node broke while straightening.  (Shoulda followed my own advice on culm selection)  The first step is to clean up the nodes so that I can get even heat dispersal through the node so I can straighten it.  Just lay a knife blade flat against the culm and run it back and forth the node while turning the culm.  Don't put any pressure against the culm with the knife.  Just let the weight of the knife follow the contour as you run it back and forth.  The node should clean up quick and easy.

Offline Josh B

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 11:46:58 pm »
Once the nodes are cleaned up, you start heating and straightening the shaft.  You'll want to leave it full length for now to aid straightening. This ones almost 4' long.  It's been awhile since I've worked with this stuff and I had forgotten how truly delicate this stuff is to work.  Patience and a gentle touch are a must!  I use a bit lighter to heat the sections that i want to straighten.  Be careful that you don't burn it.  This stuff is thin and heats fast!  You can see the result of too much heat in the first pic.  It snapped right off.  Also when heat the sections between the nodes be careful that you don't crush it.  The heat makes the thin walls soft.  Did I mention this stuff is delicate?  After you get it all straightened out to your satisfaction, the next step is cutting it to length.  Always cut the nocks end (skinny end) first.  You'll want to cut it 1/2"-3/4" above the node.  This is so you can make an insert to reinforce the nocks that will butt up against the inside of the node.   To cut it, I use a sharp knife and score it deeply all the way around the place I want the cut.  Kinda like a tubing cutter action.  If you score it deep enough all the way around, it should snap off nice and clean with very little pressure.  Once the nock end is cut, you can measure down and cut the foreshaft end the same way.  Remember to cut it to the full length of your draw and no shorter.  The foreshaft does not get drawn past the back of the bow.  Here is the semi straightened shaft cut to length.  More to come in the next few days.  Thanks for looking!  Josh

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 01:28:34 am »
Talk about multi-tasking.  Driving a semi and straightening shafts at the same time.  WOW!  ;D
I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline Knoll

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 09:32:27 am »
Not had opportunity to read the build along yet.  But wanted to holler out an acknowledgement! 
My shoots are seasoning slowly outside on the patio table in these cold cold temps.  Will cut them down to 40+" today and bring inside.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 09:39:23 am by Knoll »
... alone in distant woods or fields, in unpretending sproutlands or pastures tracked by rabbits, even in a bleak and, to most, cheerless day .... .  I suppose that this value, in my case, is equivalent to what others get by churchgoing & prayer.  Hank Thoreau, 1857

Offline turtle

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2014, 10:50:20 am »
Nice josh. Try lightly sanding the shaft and give it a coat of boiled linseed oil before heating. BOL is a flame retardant and really helps to stop scorching on phragmites.
Steve Bennett

Offline dingas

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 07:56:25 pm »
Great build a long! I harvested some phragmites in late September/early October and still not sure uow good an arrow they would make, so I will be following this! One question on flattening the nodes: are you scraping with the knife 90 degreea to the node, or laying flat, or at an angle (whittling)?

Offline Knoll

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 08:29:55 pm »
What works for me is with blade laying mostly flat on shaft.
... alone in distant woods or fields, in unpretending sproutlands or pastures tracked by rabbits, even in a bleak and, to most, cheerless day .... .  I suppose that this value, in my case, is equivalent to what others get by churchgoing & prayer.  Hank Thoreau, 1857

Offline Josh B

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2014, 08:46:00 pm »
What works for me is with blade laying mostly flat on shaft.

Yep, that's idea.  Blade is close to flat to the shaft and then just tip it up enough for the edge to catch the lip of the node.  Josh

Offline Josh B

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 09:08:33 pm »
Now that the shaft is straight(well as straight as it's gonna get)  I'll start working on the foreshaft.  Now it should be noted that I'm building a flight arrow here that should be in the neighborhood of 200 grains.   For a target or hunting arrow you'll want a lot more substantial foreshaft than what I'm making here.  I'm using a light weight 5/16" dowel and a super light drawn steel point.  I'm also using a very short piece of dowel.  My normal practice/hunting arrows will have a foreshaft that extends all the way to the inside of the node and 6" of exposed length from the phragmites shaft to the point.  Fitting the foreshaft is basically the same in principle though.  First you figure out how long of a tenon cut you want and score it all around the foreshaft at that point.  That is your stop cut.  Be sure to not cut it any deeper than necessary or you'll weaken the foreshaft.  You want a square shoulder on both the phragmites and the foreshaft so that when the insert is slide all the way in, the butt together squarely.  Also the inserted part needs to fit pretty easily inside the phragmites.  If you shave it down too small it'll make it sloppy and weak.  If you don't shave it small enough, it'll split out the phragmites.  Fitting is important so take your time.  First pic is the stop cut. Second is the start of fitting it by making small cuts back to the stop cut.  And then shaving down the rest of the insert portion of the foreshaft.

Offline Josh B

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 09:29:27 pm »
Remember, you don't want to force the insert into the phragmites.  It should slide right in and not wiggle around.   On normal arrows I would just cut the foreshaft to the exposed length I wanted and then taper it for glue on points or notch it for a stone point.  Once tapered or notched whichever may be the case I would then apply hide glue to the insert part and inside the phragmites and install the foreshaft.  I like hide glue for this cause if you need to replace the foreshaft later, you can soak it in warm water and it will come right out.  You may have to rotate the foreshaft inside the phragmites a little bit to get it all true.  After its installed, you can then mount your point and true it up.  Since I'm using a drawn steel point on this one that has an OD of 5/16", I have to make another tenon cut to fit the point to the foreshaft.  I'm leaving a 1/4" shoulder in between the phragmites and the back of the point to protect the leading edge of the phragmites.  Here's a few more pics showing the tenon cuts, the point, and finally how it all butts up flush when assembled.  The test fit is good so I will hot glue the point on and then hide glue the insert into the phragmites.

Offline Josh B

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 10:11:46 pm »
Ok, now that the foreshaft is glued into the phragmites and the point is attached to the foreshaft, it's time for the sinew wrap reinforcement.  I use a pocket knife held at 90 degrees and scrape off the outer rhind where you intend to sinew wrap the joint. I usually sinew a section about 1 1/4" long.  I also start the wrap on the foreshaft for a couple wraps and wrap it back towards the nocks.  Just for extra protection of the leading edge of the phragmites.  Once I get the rhind scraped off, I then size it with hide glue.  I don't let the glue fully dry, just tacky.  I then add another drop of glue and wrap the sinew.  The sinew wrap in the pic looks bulky, but it won't be so bad after it dries.  Once all that's  dry, we move on to the all important nock insert.   Thanks for following along so far and thanks for the tip Steve!  Wish I had some of that oil with me.  Josh

Offline Knoll

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2014, 06:58:20 am »
Lookin' good!
... alone in distant woods or fields, in unpretending sproutlands or pastures tracked by rabbits, even in a bleak and, to most, cheerless day .... .  I suppose that this value, in my case, is equivalent to what others get by churchgoing & prayer.  Hank Thoreau, 1857

Offline Josh B

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014, 08:25:33 pm »
Alrighty then...next step...the nock insert.  This step is crucial to get right with this type of phragmites.  The walls are too thin for a simple cut in nock like you would use on cane, bamboo, or the heavier walled phragmites found in the southwest from West Texas to California.  So we make an insert that butts up against the node on the inside of the shaft.  The insert must be fitted as perfectly as possible.  The inside of the node has a rounded socket shape so our insert must be rounded to fit.  Then its just a matter of thinning the insert to fit inside the shaft.  If you get it to thin, there will be a gap between the walls of the phragmites and the insert.  That won't glue well and the nock will fail.  If you don't get the insert thin enough, you'll split the shaft while forcing it in.  Once I get the insert to the proper shape and size, I squirt a little glue in the shaft and spread a little glue on the insert.  Then carefully and gently install the insert.  I say careful because the excess glue can crack the shaft If you don't give it a chance to ooze out.  Now I generally just whittle down the end of a dowel to fit, glue it in, let the glue dry and then cut the excess dowel off.  I do this so I have something to hold on to when whittling and installing the insert.  If you do it this way, its a good idea to put a temporary wrap of string around the nock area until the glue dries.  Then you can remove the string and saw off the excess dowel.

Offline Knoll

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2014, 11:19:15 pm »
Now learning how to straighten at nodes.  No glory yet.  Believe I'm gonna be glad that 4 dozen of these were harvested 'cause it may take 3 to get the knack.
... alone in distant woods or fields, in unpretending sproutlands or pastures tracked by rabbits, even in a bleak and, to most, cheerless day .... .  I suppose that this value, in my case, is equivalent to what others get by churchgoing & prayer.  Hank Thoreau, 1857

Offline Josh B

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Re: phragmites arrow build a long
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2014, 11:30:30 pm »
Ok, glue is dried so we first cut the dowel flush with the back edge of the phragmites and make sure there are no gaps between the insert and the shaft.  Glue line is good so we remove the temporary binding and proceed to making the actual nock.  This is how I make all my self nocks, it doesn't have to be done this way.  I like this technique because its pretty durable and snaps on to the string like store bought plastic nock.  First I drill a 7/64" hole where I want the floor of the nock to be.  Take your time and drill it straight.  You don't want it off center from side to side or you will make a weak side that will cause the nock to fail.  Once I get my hole drilled through, I then saw the slot down to the hole.  A coping saw or hacksaw work great for this.  Once the slot is cut, I use a folded piece of 220 grit sandpaper to finish shaping out the nock.  Easy peasy!  The nock should hold the weight of the arrow hanging from the string, but just by enough that it will come off the string by just flicking the string with your finger.  Once you get that all shaped up, you just need to scrape the rhind off for about an inch from the floor of the nock towards the point, size with glue, and sinew wrap it like you did the other end.  Make sure the sinew starts at the floor of the nock to get the best reinforcement from it.  Now Fletch it to your own style and enjoy!  Thanks for following along!  Josh