Author Topic: Making a very Primitive Bow  (Read 7699 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PierreZFP

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Making a very Primitive Bow
« on: May 04, 2015, 11:41:28 am »
Hi All
I have been digging into this excellent forum for a bit and now I have some questions to put if I may.
I know how to shoot as I've been shooting for around 25 years now (mostly recurve but also English Longbow and Compound) but I have never made a bow.
The questions concern an approach by a film maker who is making a movie based on a fictional life of Otzi the Iceman.  For those not familiar with Otzi, he is a remarkably well preserved mummy found in the ice in the Italian Tyrol.  He dates from around 3500 BC and was found with a copper axe and a quiver full  of arrows amongst other things.  He was also shot in the back with an arrow and died from his wound.
So, in the film, the actor playing Otzi needs a primitive bow appropriate to the time period (5000+ years ago).  I am thinking I could attempt to make such a thing and that it would be a good project to learn on then make a better bow for myself.
On my bit of land, I have many beech trees of various sizes, would a stave from one of these be suitable?  I am not hung up on only using stone/copper tools as long as the result looks OK.  Also, the actor has no shooting skills so I'm looking at a max 30 pound bow.
Any thoughts or guidance is much appreciated, thank you

Offline son of massey

  • Member
  • Posts: 136
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 12:07:20 pm »
Otzi had a bow stave with him that would be a reasonable starting point for design. You will probably be in the somewhat long straight limb design, so it should be a reasonably simple bow to turn out, especially if you restrict the weight and draw length for the non-archer actor.

You can make a beech bow. It is a whitewood so your bow's back is right under the bark. Grab a stave from a decent diameter tree-or one that is a bit ovular-to reduce back crown. It is not a top tier wood, but if you add a bit of extra length you should be ok. Maintaining a low draw weight will reduce your stresses a good deal.

SOM

Offline WillS

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,905
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 12:13:02 pm »
Would it not be more logical to direct the production team towards somebody who has lots of experience making exactly this style of bow, and has worked with the Otzi museum?  I can think of quite a few people who fit that bill who I'm sure would be more than happy to do it, and the end result would no doubt be a very accurate representation of the actual bow, as compared to something made of the wrong type of wood by an amateur?

I'm not trying to be deliberately negative (apologies if it came across that way), but Otzi's bow is still the subject of MANY heated debates between bow making experts worldwide, and it's only just starting to get pinned down to a specific layout, cross section etc.  There are experienced bow makers who still won't attempt to make an Otzi replica because it's so unusual and specific.

Just a thought.

On the other hand, if you do wanna give it a go it's dimensionally similar to the MR bows, and the cross section is backwards to what one would expect - flat belly and highly crowned back if you're to believe that school of thought, or the conflicting belief is that it's a classic D-cross section with rounded belly, but made from the inside of the tree, so essentially inside-out to what we think of normally.  Yew coated in blood was the original bow, but you could replicate it at a low poundage with something else for sure. 

No nocks cut into the bow itself, just sinew wraps on each end coated in thick hide glue or similar which the string loops sit against. 

If you're really not too bothered about accuracy, any narrow, deep longbow design would work - in fact for production purposes something like beech would probably be fine, as it will take lots of set using that design which would make it easier for a non-archer to use.

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,119
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 02:07:46 pm »
  I got the impression that you would really prefer to make the bow yourself. If I were going to do that I would figure on making 3 or 4 before I got the final result. Your beech will have to dry a while before you can start bending it. Wood bow staves can easily be obtained on e ebay depending on where you are located. You also may have someone willing to work with you in your own area. Making a bow is not all that difficulat once you understand the basics.

Offline GlisGlis

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,493
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 02:10:44 pm »
Hello Pierre
could you tell us a little more about this production? Where and when will it be shooted?
there are many Otzi fans here
As for the bow I think that more than an accurate replica it would be good to have a credible one.
Otzi were a small man and the bow was taller than him. That should be reproduced if possible.
There is also the point that the bow Otzi had when He died was probably never shooted as it seems it could be an unfinished one
Aniway if you google around you'll find many more or less accurate replica's to get inspiration from

Offline Marc St Louis

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7,869
  • Keep it flexible
    • Marc's Bows and Arrows
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 03:10:16 pm »
You should be more specific as to your location.  American Beech makes a decent bow but European Beech does not have such a good reputation.
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline WillS

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,905
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 04:20:11 pm »
There is also the point that the bow Otzi had when He died was probably never shooted as it seems it could be an unfinished one

That theory is more or less disproved by now.  There's no reason for a primitive hunter to be on a mountain with a quiver of arrows and a chunk of wood carefully protected and sealed in animal blood if it wasn't a working bow.  Not sure anybody would go wandering around with a quiver of arrows and nothing to shoot them with ;)

There used to be a wonderful theory flying around that the Mary Rose bows were unfinished staves as well.  It took far too long for the majority to accept that it was rubbish.

Offline joachimM

  • Member
  • Posts: 675
  • Good - better - broken
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2015, 06:31:30 pm »
I second Marc St-Louis' comment about the European beech. There are dozens of better species in Europe to start from, and surely in your area some of these grow there.
One of the reasons for this is that European beech has very short fibers which hardly splinter, and this is also why this is the preferred wood for making toys, beds and baby boxes out of this wood. But short fibers is not what you want in a bow wood. 

joachim

Offline PierreZFP

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 04:16:22 am »
Thank you all for all your rapid and helpful replies, much more than I expected.
I should point out a few things, firstly this is a zero budget production so approaching a company to produce the props is out of the question unfortunately.  I have been approached by the author of a book and screenplay of a story written around Otzi. He wants to shoot a trailer or taster in order to pitch this to a publisher and maybe a studio.  As was said above, the bow needs to be convincing rather than strictly accurate (this is the movies after all  ;)  ) Also, the actor is considerably larger than Otzi so a bow longer than him (he is around 1.8 metres tall) might look a bit odd.
As for location, I am living in Luxembourg, the 'Green Heart of Europe'.  Last evening I went for a walk to try and find a suitable tree for a stave.  Not easy is it?  The trees I can recognise are beech, fir (various), rowan, elder, european oak, silver birch. After an hour or so I realised that they were all too small/twisted/damaged but mostly they had many side branches.  A friend and neighbour has some woodland where the trees have been coppiced so I will ask him if I can look for something to cut down.
Many thanks for all your input

Offline Marc St Louis

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7,869
  • Keep it flexible
    • Marc's Bows and Arrows
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 09:39:54 am »
Rowan has been known to make a fine bow
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline WillS

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,905
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 10:54:11 am »
If you can find hazel, plum, cherry or Apple you'll have slightly better luck at making a low weight simple longbow.  Any of the plums would do.

Offline PierreZFP

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 11:24:56 am »
Hmmm definitely have cherry and hazel too.  Might be a bit of pear too if the fruit trees make acceptable bows

Offline WillS

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,905
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2015, 11:32:29 am »
If you've got hazel, that's your best bet.  Pretty much all fruit trees make good bows, but hazel is far more forgiving and will take less set if the tiller isn't perfect.

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 12:56:59 pm »
You'll very likely also have European Hornbeam which is a cleaner larger tree than the American variety.

Offline GlisGlis

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,493
Re: Making a very Primitive Bow
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 01:19:54 pm »
Quote
If you've got hazel, that's your best bet.

+1

it dryes pretty fast too in my experience