Main Discussion Area > Primitive Skills
Hand thrown spear better than the Atlatl?
Ruddy Darter:
I would imagine the atlatl as a long range weapon of war they would be most effective, on mass a volley would be devastating I would imagine, and something like the English warbow, and a lot easier to make the darts and shoot for a period of time compared to spear or javelin. You'd probably have to strength train a fair bit to throw spears constantly.
Here's a quote from Wikipedia,
Grande do Norte in mid-17th-century Brazil. Anthropologist Harald Prins offers the following description:
"The atlatl, as used by these Tarairiu warriors, was unique in shape. About 88 cm (35 in) long and 3 to 4.5 cm (1 1⁄4 to 1 3⁄4 in) wide, this spear thrower was a tapering piece of wood carved of brown hard-wood. Well-polished, it was shaped with a semi-circular outer half and had a deep groove hollowed out to receive the end of the javelin, which could be engaged by a horizontal wooden peg or spur lashed with a cotton thread to the proximal and narrower end of the throwing board, where a few scarlet parrot feathers were tied for decoration. [Their] darts or javelins… were probably made of a two-meter long wooden cane with a stone or long and serrated hard-wood point, sometimes tipped with poison. Equipped with their uniquely grooved atlatl, they could hurl their long darts from a great distance with accuracy, speed, and such deadly force that these easily pierced through the protective armor of the Portuguese or any other enemy.".[11]
And I would of thought if you could hunt efficiently with the atlatl you were also trained and well practiced for war, perhaps a good reason to do so?
Josh B:
That's a guarantee that you can't back up. High school javelin throwers are not throwing much over a couple hundred feet, certainly less than 250'. They are also not throwing at a target. Accuracy isn't even a consideration. As far as ancient Roman javelin throwers go, they achieved their distance with the aid of a leather thong wound around the javelin which acted much the way an atlatl handle does in increasing the force of the cast. You also seem to be confusing effective range with maximum cast range. As Pappy says with his archery equipment, his maximum effective range is 20yds. Do you really think he couldn't cast an arrow farther than that if he was flight shooting with the same equipment? True the javelin carries more force at the same distance as an atlatl dart would due to mass. So far that's the only valid point you've made. As far as just maximum cast goes, I can chuck a dart over a 100 yds and I'm not that good. You aren't going to find anybody that can throw a javelin that far even with the use of a thong. Josh
Pat B:
What would a typical hunting atlatl dart with a stone head weigh? I would think way more than an arrow and arrows penetrate well with a sharp head.
Onebowonder:
--- Quote from: John32r on December 04, 2015, 02:54:57 pm ---I guarantee you a high school javelin thrower can throw a heavier javelin than an atlatl dart for farther distance and with more accuracy than an atlatlist.
--- End quote ---
Evidence please?
--- Quote from: John32r on December 04, 2015, 02:54:57 pm ---The maximum hunting range for the atlatl appears to be 20-30 yards, ancient Romans threw spears for twice that distance. At that range an atlatl dart wouldn't even have the kinetic energy to break skin. The atlatl is essentially a scam.
--- End quote ---
Really? ...a scam? Were the deer, buffalo, mammoths, and other Mega Fauna killed by this tool over the millenia in on the fraud?
I realize you cannot use the tool effectively, but that's a rather lonely and VERY anecdotal data point. Do you have some testing or algorithmic calculation somewhere that has made you so certain that what you can't do cannot be done by anyone? I mean seriously, there are thousands of years of historical relationship to this weapon. You may be as old as 90 or 95 at the long end of presumption, - - - are you sure you know what you are attempting to assert here?
All an atlatl does is extend the length of the thrower's arm. The calculations for how that changes the force delivered to the throw is not purely trivial, ...but it's also not rocket science! (...though ironically, it is very like the science required to do rocketry, and may in fact have been human kind's first step into the applied science of projectile science and mathematics.)
I thought this was a pretty good start into some of the evidence you seem to desire. Have a look...
http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/articles/howhard.htm
OneBow
John32r:
Onebow try reading the source in my original post. Maximum hunting range with the atlatl is 20 yards, that's for Australian aboriginals who've been using it for thousands of years. Average high school track meet sees javelins fly over 40 yards. There's a reason this "weapon" was abandoned. Case closed.
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