Author Topic: ABO tools conversation.  (Read 8921 times)

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Offline iowabow

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ABO tools conversation.
« on: December 04, 2015, 01:09:32 pm »
I think I would be ok posting my writings in a thread if it would help people. If I do this I want to make sure everyone understands that this is only how I do it, not how everyone should do it type stuff. Also these writings would be about my abo ideas today and they change weekly so I would update the info from time to time. Also these are skills with ABO like tools and skill that produce points that look like other historic points but I make no claim this is how it was done only that it can be done. I my journey  has revealed very little original information that I think I can say I came up with and 99% I learned from others.
 
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline nclonghunter

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2015, 01:34:02 pm »
^^^^^^^^^^Totally agree with Iowabow's statement^^^^^^^^^^

I will admit at home I use a hand saw to cut my antler to lengths and a 4 sided hand file to shape. The holes I will use a drill. The use of modern tools may change soon. I would not use any power tools at a public event and hopefully my knapping tools would be ready to last a day or two without any major adjustment needed.   Iowabow uses his Ishi stick with the removable antler insert, then several inserts could be kept on hand. All my current knapping is done with antler, bone, wood and stone.
There are no bad knappers, only bad flakes

Offline GlisGlis

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2015, 06:02:16 pm »
I found my obsidian like material in form of bottles containing not so Abo liquid in it.
I do my best to correct this historic issue by drinking it as fast as I can and in truly primitive manner  >:D

Offline iowabow

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2015, 06:25:21 pm »
I found my obsidian like material in form of bottles containing not so Abo liquid in it.
I do my best to correct this historic issue by drinking it as fast as I can and in truly primitive manner  >:D
now that's funny
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2015, 10:54:25 pm »
I found my obsidian like material in form of bottles containing not so Abo liquid in it.
I do my best to correct this historic issue by drinking it as fast as I can and in truly primitive manner  >:D

There is some theorization that the desire for more grains to be used in brewing is what caused people to get into farming versus just gathering. So, yeah, that liquid is mighty abo!
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline nclonghunter

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2015, 10:35:20 am »
If we could only document a paleo distillery..... :o
There are no bad knappers, only bad flakes

Offline Spotted Dog

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2015, 12:20:33 pm »
Iowa,
I understand where your coming from. When I was still on the job I would teach men how to weld and use a torch.
How to work steel. I would always told them that until they made what I taught their own my teaching was nothing.
Most every man came out on top. Good for me. I was generally 30 years their senior.
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

AncientTech

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 10:55:39 pm »
I think I would be ok posting my writings in a thread if it would help people. If I do this I want to make sure everyone understands that this is only how I do it, not how everyone should do it type stuff. Also these writings would be about my abo ideas today and they change weekly so I would update the info from time to time. Also these are skills with ABO like tools and skill that produce points that look like other historic points but I make no claim this is how it was done only that it can be done. I my journey  has revealed very little original information that I think I can say I came up with and 99% I learned from others.

If you are interested in Native American knapping (all prehistoric knapping from North America, South America, and Central America), then it would be critical to study the flintknapping tools that they used.  Actually, it is super, extra, double important critical, because without looking at the knapping tools that were once used, it is a complete shot in the dark.

Also, it appears going all the way back to Anzick, and earlier, the Native American people always maintained a firm belief in the afterlife.  And, they usually buried personal items with the deceased, to accompany them in the next life.  If they had not done this, Columbus would have encountered people loaded with stone tools that were handed down for millenia, as we hand our belongings down, through wills.  But, this was not encountered.  The deceased were sent into the afterlife with important belongings that were deemed necessary.

Because of this tendency, archaeologists have been able to focus on grave items, in order to make an inference as to what the person might have done during his or her life.  Their respective livelihoods were reflected in the items that were interred with the their remains.  And, the good news is that archaeologists have been recovering presumed flintknapping tool kits, for probably the last hundred years. 

Some people think that we could never know anything about ancient knapping, because we do not have a time machine to fly back in time, in order to see ancient people knap.  But, guess what?  We DO have their flintknapping toolkits.  And, as far as I can tell, the known toolkits should be the starting point.

If a person wants to understand Native American knapping, the first thing to look at is the tool kit.  The second thing to look at is the flakes and flake scars produced by the tools, during all stages of reduction.  And, the third thing to look at is the finished points.   

While this may all sound simple, probably the biggest problem is that for the last century, people have not really been able to figure out how some of the most prominent flintknapping tools were used, in the Americas.  This is probably what led to the antler baton theory being adopted from European theorists Barnes, Leakey, and Bordes, by the American flintknapper Don Crabtree. 

I don't believe that Barnes had Native American flintknapping in mind, when he invented the flintknapping baton, during the 1930's.  I do not believe that Luis Leakey had Native American flintknapping in mind, when he made oversized bifaces, in Africa, with wooden batons, in the 1940's.  Bordes said that he did not know much about archaeology, probably in the 1950's.  And, Crabtree simply followed in their tracks, with regard to the antler baton theory.   

So, what needs to be done is that someone needs to go beyond Don Crabtree, and ask, "What TOOLS did Native Americas use, when they made their points?  How could these tools have been used?  Are certain tool processes reflected in certain stages of reduction?"

This is a very difficult path to take.  It is a path that many other people stumbled on, or simply abandoned altogether.  Nevertheless, Native American flintknapping will never be understood, so long as the evidence remains abandoned.   

     


Offline iowabow

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 07:24:06 am »
I think I would be ok posting my writings in a thread if it would help people. If I do this I want to make sure everyone understands that this is only how I do it, not how everyone should do it type stuff. Also these writings would be about my abo ideas today and they change weekly so I would update the info from time to time. Also these are skills with ABO like tools and skill that produce points that look like other historic points but I make no claim this is how it was done only that it can be done. I my journey  has revealed very little original information that I think I can say I came up with and 99% I learned from others.

If you are interested in Native American knapping (all prehistoric knapping from North America, South America, and Central America), then it would be critical to study the flintknapping tools that they used.  .........

     
I have already read this multiple times form multiple post. A.T. I am going to ask in a positive and kind way that you help us with your input. The following is me asking you in a positive tone to enter the conversation with new information. I have read your post and many of your other post that are the same. Could you post current work about what you are saying in your evidence. For example, make 25 points with a given set of tools and tell use what you have learned and your insight. I think the community here would enjoy your efforts. I like that you research topics that you are interested in but would like to see more of the impact this is having on your journey as a knapper. So when you knap today show us what you have done. When you knap tomorrow show us what you have done.
I Knap almost everyday it takes years for me to learn new things. It is a wonderful experience to discover new things and to learn what others have discovered. For example, JackCrafty works all the time and would be an example of an artist developing his craft. He helps all of us expand our understanding about knapping.
By giving us information and current examples of your work (like Pattrick) you to could be helping others. I do mean this in a very positive way because none of us doubt your passion.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 07:53:30 am by iowabow »
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline Spotted Dog

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 09:23:26 am »
  On the thought of tools. I have a bucket of buffalo leg bones. Ends cut off. I split one the other day. then took my rasp and semi flattened one end,
It is that tool that helped me do the obsidian points. After a couple of cups of coffee I will posts some pics .
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

Offline Spotted Dog

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2015, 12:47:24 pm »


Leg bone pieces up close.
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

Offline nclonghunter

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2015, 03:18:31 pm »
I would like to try some heavy bone pressure flakers. I do not think they would hold up to indirect percussion.
There are no bad knappers, only bad flakes

Offline Spotted Dog

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2015, 04:26:10 pm »
I'm not sure either. This bone is very hard and up to 3/8" thick. Time will tell.
Not up to trying more today. Hope to in the morning.
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

Offline iowabow

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2015, 04:52:47 pm »


Leg bone pieces up close.
That's a great idea.
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: ABO tools conversation.
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2015, 01:37:39 am »
I would like to try some heavy bone pressure flakers. I do not think they would hold up to indirect percussion.

You're right about the bone not holing up well.... at least not with cow bone.  Buffalo might work better.  And getting a large enough piece for indirect percussion is difficult.  I tried once with the longest and thickest slice of cow bone I could find.  It lasted about 30 minutes before a piece of the tip when flying off in a unknown direction.  It might work on small points, though.
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

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Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr