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[---GUTSHOT--->]

BL tiller ? I've got the right limb looking good but the left I'm struggling with.  It has 2 knots from the tip 1/3 and 2/3 up is were there located and I just can't get it to bend in that area. Just wanting a little advice. Right know it's braced at 4" and is 27lb at 16"


 

[half eye]

Mr. Gutshot,
     Actually I think your left limb looks pretty darned good. I think the right has a stiff spot that makes it LOOK like it's bending better than it actually is........I marked your picture......think you should scrape a little at a time in this area and you should see the right limb "flatten out" it's curve to be more like the left.  After that you should be able to work them back the same....
    Hope that was more clear than mud   Basically try to get them both about the same then tiller from there.....just do it slow enough to check all the changes that will happen, meaning as the right flattens out some the left will change at the same time so go slow.
rich

[PlanB]

On my screen it's hard to see a pic that small, and I don't feel qualified to comment on other people's tillers here -- I struggle enough with my own! But I would like to help at least by making that photo larger -- and in doing so I noticed one other thing -- and that has caused me big problems in tillering my own bow recently, too.

The problem is that many digital cameras, phones, etc. distort the image quite a bit. And unfortunately, they can do that unevenly left to right across a photo.

Here is Gutshot's photo enlarged to 600 pixels wide. That's a help. But also notice that the building studs behind the tillering board are nearly plumb on the left edge of the photo, and strongly angled to the right on the right side of the photo. I bet that in real life, those studs don't fan out like that.




If this effect is a result of lens distortion instead of crazy studs, then the bow will appear to dip more on the right limb than it would otherwise.

Here's a modified photo that i put through a photo editing program and used the perspective tool to even up the studs and the top and bottom edgess of the tillering board. I'm not saying this is representative either, but it gives you an idea of what the difference in lens distortions can amount to with respect to limb bending:




Not trying to throw a monkey wrench into anything here, but I trust my own photos of my bow's tillers a lot less than I did once I saw what it did to the shape of the vertical siding behind my tiller tree. Same effect -- and I checked the siding with a level to make sure it was plumb -- it was.

[ajooter]

I disagree rich....I think that left limb is starting to hinge just out of the fade and stays pretty stiff about 2/3 out.  It is hard to tell with the picture on the smaller side.  I think the right looks pretty good.  Just my 2 cents.

[half eye]

Ajooter, upon reflection you are probably correct. If ya start bringing the left down just keep your eye on those knots.  You are right about the left fade hinge, now that the photo is enlarged.
rich

[PlanB]

Some other things that have messed me up when doing my own tillering via photo -- any twist in the limb is not nearly as apparent in a photo on a tillering tree than it is by eye. This is particularly true of low quality photos, poorly lit or unevenly lit, low pixel count, out of focus etc.

The eye tends to correct for twist giving a better idea of how the limb is bending. The photo can show false hinges, or the opposite.

I think photos can help lots of times but should be taken with a grain of salt if what you see with your own eyes on the tree contradicts what the photo seems to show. And I'm starting to think that for overall bends themselves (not hinges) , off the tree balance at the grip (as others have suggested) is more important than photographically symmetrical bends on a tiller.

I'd really like to know more about balance and handle shape, because that really is starting to show an effect when shooting (and final tillering) for me. I wish we saw more people's bow handles, and they talked about them.

[---GUTSHOT--->]

So my thinking was right on the left limb I did notice the starting of a hinge but I have stayed away from that area I've only focused on the outer 2/3 of the L limb  but those dang knots just want let it bend. Like the right. Plan B thanks for the insight on the photo enhancement those wall studs are plum. Lol any ways when I get home tonight I will work that left limb a lot more to try to balance it out. I just needed some body to see what I was seeing and make sure I was right. Thanks guys

[stuckinthemud]

most phone-type camera lenses are slightly fish-eye in design - very wide angle lenses for close up group shots - if yours has a zoom facility then standing well back and zooming in on the image over-rides the wide-angle effect.  Also, I-pads have a square photo option that should get rid of the wide-angle effect

[PlanB]

stuck, I would normally agree -- and true back in the 35 mm film days, but now digital cameras do all kinds of firmware manipulation of images before they even make it to an output file. I noticed the distortion problem on mine AFTER I had zoomed -- ostensibly to bring it from its 24mm fisheye equivalent "normal" setting to what I hoped was a 50-90 mm equiv. -- thinking I was avoiding distortion.... and it's a pretty good camera. But no. I also have  feeling that a vertical full draw shot is a better indicator than a horizontal tiller shot. I think the eyeball is starting to get preference for me over cameras -- on the tiller tree, at least.

[willie]

Plan B

I don't even need a camera to get distortion, jut looking first with my right eye, and then with the left  is tricky enough for me.

Balance-- Are you asking about balance in the hand? or positive and negative tiller? What I call balance in the hand is having the bow hand grip placed such that the bow carries the way I like it to when hunting or roving. For me, having most of the weight carried by the middle finger with a slight weight carried by the little finger, is a hand placement that I can consistently repeat. when I firm up my grip and bring the bow up to begin drawing, the arrow is at  the proper rest point without my having to look down at the bow to adjust my grip.
On the other hand, some discussions of positive and negative tiller can be problematic for me, because so often the given advice seems to be a specific recommendation, supposedly good for all bows. 

willie

[PEARL DRUMS]

You can skip cameras, mirrors and opinions if you do it this way. This isn't me, I found a picture on the web. When that gap in the center shrinks, you mark it and remove wood. Where that gap increases, you leave it alone. Very simple and very effective.

[PlanB]

Willie, what I meant was that with a plain, uncontoured grip like many true primitive bows have, how you grip it changes the vertical placement of the arrow when it hits the target, as if you changed the tiller proportion on the limbs. If I pinch near the top of a handle with tiller optimized for the middle of the grip, the arrow hits low. If I heel it, it may hit at center or even high.

On a shaped handle like I believe Pearl Drums mentioned earlier, which forces a certain grip, that might not happen as much. I don't know for sure, but I'm shooting the new bow with different holds and handle shapes.  I've been trying that out with a temporary string grip on the plan B bow. With string, I can just unwind it and insert different shaped pieces of leather in the grip, and re-wind in a couple of minutes. I'm using leather because this is somewhat of a bendy handle.

[---GUTSHOT--->]

You can skip cameras, mirrors and opinions if you do it this way. This isn't me, I found a picture on the web. When that gap in the center shrinks, you mark it and remove wood. Where that gap increases, you leave it alone. Very simple and very effective.

How long is that price of wood PD I've seen some people using a gizmo but don't know the length of it

[willie]

PB

nice pic of the handle area, but I wouldn't mind seeing a few close-ups of your finish, if you have them. the dark stain, with just a hint of the grain showing, looks nice

[PEARL DRUMS]

Length doesn't matter gut. I use any straight edge I can find. All the length does is make the gap look bigger or smaller. I use my scrapers.