Laminated ELB Question - Renishaw Hall

[jaxenro]

Not exactly a Warbow but I was reading a little (unfortunately very little) about the longbow at Renishaw Hall that is thought to date from the 1600's and is laminated from yew, hickory, and ?wych elm?

Is this the oldest known tri-lam ELB style bow in existance? All I read says the EWB from the "classic" period was a self bow of yew or mean wood. Does anyone know any more about this bow? Early 1600's or late 1600's? Anything? I couldn't even find a picture

[WillS]

There are about 5 medieval / late medieval bows reportedly knocking around the UK, held in stately homes usually.  I don't know of anybody who's seen them, and I've tried many times to get in contact with the people who apparently own them to no avail. 

This one sounds suspect, purely due to the woods used.  Hickory would be a backing wood, making yew and wych elm the core and belly woods - which doesn't really make sense.  Yew is a fantastic belly wood but putting elm in a core is pointless.  Yew is often used as a core wood, but elm isn't exactly the ideal belly wood either.  It sounds like the ultimate bow designed by somebody who knows what timbers are USUALLY used for bows but has no understanding of how specific timbers work.

[jaxenro]

I initially found it in the issue of PA that is free online (Feb/Mar 2014) in an article by Hugh Soar page 12. Hickory backed, yew belly, and said to have marks on it similar to the MR bows. Rereading it says late 17th century so 1670's to 1700 maybe. This is a quote from the article

There is insufficient space here to give the reasons for a belief that it is of the seventeenth century—these are given in a monograph written for the Society of Archer
Antiquaries in 2011, but its appearance and its provenance suggest this.
It is a laminated bow of yew belly and hickory back, with a core that maybe of wych elm (ulmus glabra). No maker’s name or drawweight are marked. Both stringing horns are missing, but the tips of each limb are coned, suggesting their original presence. Of much interest are the bowyers marks which appear above the handle and compare with similar marks on the bows recovered from the Mary Rose. This implies a register of bowyers, held perhaps by the Worshipful Company of
Bowyers, or even by the Tower of London with their individual markings, but nothing is known to survive.

The overall length is 70 inches, with an estimate of 68 inches between nocks if these had been present. Width is 0.94 inch at the handle, diminishing in even taper to 0.44 inches at the limb end. The depth of each limb varies, the lower being deeper overall. Upper, at 12" from grip to 34" 0.88" to 0.44" and the lower similarly, at 12" 1", to .037. Section is conventional plano-convex (D shape). An estimate of draw-weight would be between 60 and 70 lbs.

[Pat B]

Would hickory have been used in the 1600s-1700s as a bow wood(backing) in the UK?  It seems like it is pretty uncommon now days so I wonder if it was even considered back then?

[jaxenro]

Don't know but I assume Primitive Archer is a fairly reliable source

[WillS]

I'd be surprised if hickory was on the radar until the Victorian sporting bows took over, but I'm often surprised about lots of things.

[mikekeswick]

Hickory , elm core and a yew belly would make a very nice shooting bow. Why on earth you think putting an elm core in the bow would be pointless Will...I don't know.
The wood trade has been going a long, long time and I'm sure the properties of hickory and virtually everything else were well known!

[willie]

The wood trade has been going a long, long time and I'm sure the properties of hickory and virtually everything else were well known

yes, I agree Mike. Timber, fish and furs were the reasons for the colonies in hickory land, in the early 1600's

relevant question posted here

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,60710.0.html

[PatM]

Elm is considered a fantastic core now but not back then? lol

[WillS]

Show me a tri-lam longbow with wych elm (not red elm, or English elm) as a core that benefitted from it and I'll take it back.  I've never seen one.

[PatM]

 Well how do the others benefit and that one not or suffer from it?