Author Topic: Fades  (Read 532 times)

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Offline DC

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Fades
« on: November 10, 2017, 10:20:28 am »
In my quest for longer working limbs I was looking a the tillering chapter of TBB1. He says that the bending should not start until the widest part of the limb. Is that still the general consensus?
Vancouver Island

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Fades
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 10:33:01 am »
Yes, pretty much unless we are talking a bend in the handle bow.
Also, with some experience you can allow the bow to bend into the fades and handle even though it is a narrowed handled bow.
Jawge

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Online PatM

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Re: Fades
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 10:44:36 am »
In practice fades actually move more than people think and it's easy to prove that.   Even those who insist that fades should not work and that bending does not happen until the widest part  can do this test.

Offline DC

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Re: Fades
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 10:50:20 am »
Yes, pretty much unless we are talking a bend in the handle bow.
Also, with some experience you can allow the bow to bend into the fades and handle even though it is a narrowed handled bow.
Jawge
This one is not a bendy. That's good to hear that I might be able to stretch the working limb a bit. The bendy I posted has about a 29" working limb(half of the bow) and it scares me every time I look at the picture. So many of these OS staves are in the 55-60" length I'm just looking for every option.
Vancouver Island

Offline DC

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Re: Fades
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 10:52:59 am »
In practice fades actually move more than people think and it's easy to prove that.   Even those who insist that fades should not work and that bending does not happen until the widest part  can do this test.
I've glued a splint across the handle(like Del did) and have noticed that handles move. It was a small amount that I didn't really think about. Do you have a different test?
Vancouver Island

Offline willie

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Re: Fades
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 11:13:36 am »
I think the concern is the grain runoff in the fade area. longer fades and not using a wood that wants to lift a splinter easily might help.        here is a sudbury I have always admired

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,52711.msg714411.html#msg714411

Offline Pat B

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Re: Fades
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 12:01:19 pm »
IMO, the fades are the transition between the working and non-working portions of the bow.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Online PatM

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Re: Fades
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 12:02:18 pm »
In practice fades actually move more than people think and it's easy to prove that.   Even those who insist that fades should not work and that bending does not happen until the widest part  can do this test.
I've glued a splint across the handle(like Del did) and have noticed that handles move. It was a small amount that I didn't really think about. Do you have a different test?

  Not really. If  you place the back of a bow against a flat surface you can see daylight immediately past the thickest portion of the handle which shows that fades move at least a little.  You could draw a bow on a tiller stick and note how much that increases on the draw.

 It's remarkably hard to make  portions of a bow truly static. You can sight down a bow while bending it sideways and you'll see the potential deflection in a handle sideways as well.

Online PatM

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Re: Fades
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 12:03:07 pm »
IMO, the fades are the transition between the working and non-working portions of the bow.

 As a transition zone do you think they actually move?

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Fades
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 02:47:22 pm »
Yes Pat. In most cases.

We have more control there than many realize.

As the bows' creators, we tend to segregate with work prejudice before the bow is able to reveal to us what it really needs. This area, the dips/fades, is a vitally important area, is where flex(most of such a bow's reason for being) must be slowed and ultimately halted with enough finesse to make it elusive, and enough understanding to make it completely effective... in a stiff handled bow. There are more/better reasons to integrate and finesse these areas into a single integer than to segregate the bow into separate parts and attempt to link them together by little more than terminology.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Fades
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 04:01:16 pm »
I built a three piece takedown once. The guy helping me ground the fades off before I could stop him. They hinged! Right where the fades should have been. So yes I would say they bend in the fades.
Arvin
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Fades
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2017, 07:15:25 pm »
I think they should if you're trying to get as much working limb as possible. 
In my bendy handle bows I only feel the handle give when I hit full draw. They usually have long thin fades.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Fades
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2017, 11:49:59 pm »
It's all a matter of degree... everything flexes a tiny bit. (It's just almost imperceptible without using something to show it)
It's just making sure it isn't too much where you don't want it... and that sums up the whole bowmaking dilemma! :BB
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Fades
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 04:00:48 am »
The fades are the last place your limbs should start bending because of the leverage of the limbs. Get them bending too soon and you'll get a hinge.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Eric

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Re: Fades
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 05:07:36 am »
Quote
I think the concern is the grain runoff in the fade area. longer fades and not using a wood that wants to lift a splinter easily might help. here is a sudbury I have always admired...

That is a sweet looking sudbury design. I hadn't really thought of my bows as replicas, but it appears I've been gravitating towards a design that's very much like this. I tend to use harder woods (hickory, hard maple, hophornbeam when I can find it straight) and use a paddle bow design that's fairly narrow, with narrow tips. I have a hard maple stave that will end up as one of these bows drying. It's almost ready, so it will be a winter project.

I prefer paddle-shaped designs because I don't like seeing sharp transitions on my bows with lots of fiber runoff. I taught a bow making class a few weekends ago and one gentleman was committed to making a pyramid, so I let him. Despite my best efforts at helping him, he took too much wood off the fades and they started to bend. The bow failed just out of the fades.
Eric Garza
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