Author Topic: Backing after toasting...  (Read 519 times)

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Offline manysteps

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Backing after toasting...
« on: October 11, 2018, 03:47:49 pm »
I just finished loose string tillering a 68" hickory board bow, and the draw weight is less than desired thanks to a dull band saw blade early on...

Anyway, it's loose string tillered to 30" at 33#, so I'm going to add a hickory backing... I'm thinking of toasting the belly to reflex it about 4" while I wait for the backing to arrive... of course, once I glue the backing on, I'll have to tiller it down to the 55# draw weight that I want to end up with... Am I wasting my time toasting?

Offline upstatenybowyer

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 04:43:34 pm »
I'm just speculating here, but my guess is if the backing is thin enough, and you do a nice slow and even toasting (holding the heat gun at least 4" away long enough to penetrate the wood deeply) while adding the reflex, when you go to retiller the positive effect that toasting has will still remain. I don't think the toasting and backing will raise the draw weight so far above 55" that you'll have to remove all the toasted wood to get it where you want it.

Just my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt.
"Even as the archer loves the arrow that flies, so too he loves the bow that remains constant in his hands."

Nigerian Proverb

Offline Pat B

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 06:41:11 pm »
You only loose string tillered it to 30"? You've skipper the last 5 or 6 steps in building a wood bow.  ???
 Also, to go from 33# to 55# is gonna be tough. You can gain about 10# or a little more with the hickory backing and reflex. Heat treating might add another 5#. It's possible but you better familiarize yourself with the finer points of tillering first.
Might consider changing your name to fewersteps.   ;D   ;)
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Online stuckinthemud

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 11:00:06 pm »
I'm thinking you should put a short string on it and see what it looks like at brace, you may not like what you see.  Anyhoo, toasting changes the physical properties of the wood, and is almost always a good idea.  What is your designed draw length?  I tend to agree with Pat tho, reaching 55# might be a bit of a stretch, but 45 or even 50 should be do-able.

Online bjrogg

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 02:18:59 am »
Yes you should go to brace length string sooner. It will change tiller with short string. It will pull the tip more towards the handle than long string does. Next time try get to brace length string sooner. When limbs are moving about 6-7" at tips. Also the best way to hit your target weight is to use a scales and pull to your wanted draw weight as you tiller. You have to get a even bend first, but as soon as you have a even bend always exercise limbs and then pull to weight you want. Keep perfecting the tiller as you work your way to wanted draw length always pulling to wanted draw weight. Just a few more steps you might want to consider using.
Good Luck
Bjrogg
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline upstatenybowyer

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 12:12:38 pm »
Oh geez, guess I didn't pay attention to pulling it 30" on long string. The guys are spot on.
"Even as the archer loves the arrow that flies, so too he loves the bow that remains constant in his hands."

Nigerian Proverb

Offline manysteps

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 12:32:56 pm »
I don't understand why you'd criticize my tillering methods, there wasn't even a question about the tiller... this is the 14th bow I've made this way... why you'd feel the need to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you haven't even seen the tiller makes no sense to me.

The gentleman that taught me to make bows has been making them for more than 60 years, he knows what he's teaching.

Anyway, thanks for the helpful comments, I'll let you know how the bow ends up... I think you'll be surprised how much a 1/8" backing strip is going to add to this bow. (it's now been toasted with a 4" reflex and is hanging out in my bathroom to get some moisture back)

Online stuckinthemud

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 01:17:33 pm »
I don't think it was a criticism, more an observation.  I've tried using a long string to tiller and tried switching to a short string as early as possible. Of the two, I find the second method superior. But, every maker makes a bow in a different way and what works for you is the best method for you. Looking forward to seeing more of your work.

Offline manysteps

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 01:25:10 pm »
Thanks. My thoughts exactly... I do fine tune the tiller with a short string, but they rarely need it.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 01:39:48 pm »
The reason I brought it up is because tilling only with a long string can give you false readings on the tiller and the draw weight. I use a long string only long enough to get to low brace. Once there I make adjustments, making sure the string lines up and that both limbs are bending evenly and together. From this point it's only reducing weight and making minor adjustments.
 Apparently you missed your intended draw weight by 20# so that's why I mentioned it.
 Will you post pics of your bow, braced, unbraced, show the bow's shape(style) and full draw.
 I've been building wood bows for over 30 years and teaching for over 20 years. We are not here to bust your chops. We are hear to help you learn to build wood bows. We have experienced wood bowyers here from all over the world that are willing to give anyone whatever info and suggestions they require to be successful building all wood traditional and primitive bows.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline manysteps

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 02:56:05 pm »
The reason I brought it up is because tilling only with a long string can give you false readings on the tiller and the draw weight. I use a long string only long enough to get to low brace. Once there I make adjustments, making sure the string lines up and that both limbs are bending evenly and together. From this point it's only reducing weight and making minor adjustments.
 Apparently you missed your intended draw weight by 20# so that's why I mentioned it.
 Will you post pics of your bow, braced, unbraced, show the bow's shape(style) and full draw.
 I've been building wood bows for over 30 years and teaching for over 20 years. We are not here to bust your chops. We are hear to help you learn to build wood bows. We have experienced wood bowyers here from all over the world that are willing to give anyone whatever info and suggestions they require to be successful building all wood traditional and primitive bows.

I understand your reasoning, but missing the intended draw weight had nothing to do with the tillering method, but rather a hinge created by band saw work (dull blade wandering everywhere)

I also know how the bow changes once strung, and careful attention is always applied once I string it... I've found that the loose string is usually about 10lbs lighter than the actual strung weight.

All that said, what works for me works... so do your methods... I didn't feel like you were "getting after me", more that I didn't ask for the unsolicited advice assuming that my tillering caused the drop in weight.

I could have added wood very early on and avoided the issue entirely, but knowing I can still back the bow gives me freedom, and has saved me quite a bit of money on previous builds.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 06:05:15 pm »
Can we see pics of your bow as it is now?
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline manysteps

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2018, 06:31:23 pm »
Can we see pics of your bow as it is now?

I could show pics of it, but not braced... it's recovering from the heat treat... not a good idea to bend it when it's brittle... I'll show pics later for sure though.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Backing after toasting...
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2018, 08:45:57 am »
if you ask for advice on this site,, experts at bow making will reply,, and it may not be what you want to hear,, proceed as you wish,, you will find,, when most the guys agree,, they are usually correct in advice given,,,,great advise is seldom taken;;;Voltaire
if you are having to back bows on previous builds,, then something about your procedure may need adjusting in a positive way,, I would just guess maybe bracing the bow sooner and not leaving on the long string ,,,, as long,, just guessing,,without much info,,,
unsolisited guessing,,  :)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:57:07 am by bradsmith2010 »