Author Topic: Old TC kit and shooting woes  (Read 624 times)

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Offline Eric Krewson

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Old TC kit and shooting woes
« on: November 25, 2018, 01:51:04 pm »
I was going to keep the aforementioned TC Hawken kit pristine but decided I didn't need a closet queen. I tried to add a picture of the kit gun but the site isn't taking any at the present.

I got it out and worked up a load for it a couple of days ago, It liked a .490 ball, 70 Gr of 2F and a .014 denim patch, balls touching at 25 yards. But.......it hit almost 4" high and had to have the front sight knocked over and the rear sight almost as far to the left as possible to get the group centered.

I thought about bending the barrel, adding a taller front sight or cutting the rear notch deeper.

I started with deepening the rear notch, boy did I screw that up, I freehanded it and somehow wandered to the right to mess up the back blade completely.

I checked on a new sight on eBay and found they are now made of gold, some were going for $45.

The guys at the M/L forum said I my old barrel was from a time TC got barrels from Douglas and that they had a lot of runout. The replaced these when the lifetime warranty was still in effect but not now.

I was pulling my hair out as what to do, I measured my barrel and did have run out, the barrel wall was .012 thicker on the bottom than the top.

Today I solved the problem of the gun shooting high. Going through the drawer full of long ago discarded M/L parts (we all have one) I found an newer TC Hawken rear sight. This sight sits about 1/8" lower bottomed out than the ancient one that was on my gun. It only has one mounting screw where my old one had two but this was a good thing because I could use the existing forward hole and move my sight forward about 1 1/2", better for these old eyes.I have several of the hole plugging screws so I plugged the unused hole.

I can't see the front sight at all unless the sun is on my back or I am shooting at a light colored target, I may try painting it white. I did commit blasphemy and ordered an original TC fiber optic front, new old stock. Used to be you could order these anywhere but they are few and far between now.

The gun shot well at 50 yards, less than a 2" group even with my sorry eyes. I am a flintlock guy but on dark dismal evenings I may backslide and shoot percussion, the flintlock flash doesn't bother me in good light but right at dusk it blinds me.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 03:24:44 am by Eric Krewson »

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2018, 09:23:49 am »
Sometimes it is what it is.

I had won one of those old two piece birch stocked Traditions caplock long ago. I built it, shot deer with it, shot competition (and did pretty good) with it, and then started to "tart it up" by adding two and a half inches to the stock with some carefully carved 2x4, and adding a horn nose cap on the stock, some incised carving, etc.  In the end, it looked like a bad joke about what you wake up with the morning after a nite of debauched drinking. But it still shot where I was looking!!!

At some point I threw away all the wood and bought a piece of plain grain maple.  That lock, trigger, and barrel needs to get rebuilt and find a home with a young person that just wants a charcoal burner that they can have all their own.

Yup, it sure is what it is.
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2018, 04:02:06 am »
Another thing I dislike about the gun is the trigger, I have been spoiled by Davis double set triggers that are as slick as glass. The TC trigger clicks so loudly being set it would scare a deer away from 50 yards, the front trigger is a bear as well if used alone.

There may be a Davis Deerslayer trigger in my future, it is supposed to be a drop in for a TC.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 01:35:55 pm by Eric Krewson »

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2018, 01:31:13 pm »
Well, I fixed the awful trigger, copied from another post;

As I posted before the barrel had runout and it took some finagling and parts changing to get it on target.

My next concern was the awful trigger, I thought I would never shoot the gun so I didn't check the finer points when I put it together. I considered a Davis Deerslayer but thought better look at the TC trigger closely first. I was surprised at what I found, I have rasps that are smoother than the trigger bar and sear of this gun.

Sorry for the out of focus picture but I thought it was in focus and proceeded on to polishing the whole trigger. Both trigger bars were as rough as what you see in the right side of the picture from one end to the other, actually much worse as I have run some sand paper over the whole trigger bar already.



This is all hardened metal so I sanded the bulk of the grooves out with 220 paper wrapped around a flat file, hit it a little with 400, then emery cloth, and finally with a polishing wheel on a dremel, I did the same on the sear at the contact point.

I had a catchy, grating front trigger of at least 6 to 8#, and ended up with a smooth as silk front trigger of about 3#. Set and not readjusted after the work, the front trigger went from about 2# to 1.5# or less.

This is the first TC I have owned since I learned a little bit about gun building from a few plank builds and a couple of precarves. I guess Davis just lost a sale.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 01:37:54 pm by Eric Krewson »

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2018, 03:23:38 am »
One more change; I can't see the front sight on this gun unless the sun is at my back or I am shooting at a very light object. I hunt evenings so these conditions seldom exist.

I am a primitive hunter, using flintlocks exclusively until I built the TC kit. I decided a gun I couldn't see the front sight on wasn't much use to me and made a non primitive change.


Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2018, 07:46:49 am »
Eric,
I am more or less looking for one of those front sights, where did you find it?  I got a more or less finished TC kit gun and redid the stock to make everything fit and flush and refinished it with Truoil.  It actually shoots better than I do, but had to install a peep sight which I managed to screw up by not adjusting it properly. Have to send that in for factory repair!  Otherwise it is a fun gun to shoot!  But when I decide to go bp big game hunting, I always take my .58 Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter as a backup rifle.
New questions - do you know if Douglas(?) has restarted production of the .40 cal drop in barrels for the TC Hawken?  Also, I thought I heard there was a 20 ga barrel made for the Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter, but haven't been able to find out anything about it.  You are much more knowledgeable on those things than I am, any info is greatly appreciated.  Thanks and good shooting!
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2018, 09:24:57 am »
If a fiber optic sight is what it takes to prevent a cruel wounding of a deer, then use it!  It is what it is.  No judgement here. (Heck, I just bought a set of carbon fiber arrows last week!)
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2018, 01:30:13 pm »
The sight came from eBay, the guy selling them had a bunch of new old stock. They are oversized for the dovetail so they take some filing to make them fit.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thompson-Center-7748-Fiber-Optic-Traditional-Front-Sight-New/153242130392?hash=item23adf157d8:g:Lg8AAOSwEYBag20u:rk:1:pf:0

Track of the Wolf has drop ins, .50 and .54, 32" Green Mountain barrels. The Gun Works appears to have every caliber of drop-in for 15/16 and 1" barrels but they are very pricy for the small calibers.

Douglas doesn't make M/L barrels

Don't know about navy arms barrels, if you could find a rusted out one Bobby Hoyt can turn it into a 20ga for you. I had him rebore and rifle two barrels for me, top notch work.

Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 08:23:49 pm »
Eric,
Thanks for the info!  I may well have been mistaken about the the Douglas drop ins for TCs.  When I bought my .58 long rifle years ago( circa 1983), I was told by the seller that it was a Douglas barrel.  Very accurate rifle.  I will check out GM barrels.  Pricey, I don't need!  A rusty old .58 Navy BH, I'll try to trade for!
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2018, 03:53:13 am »
Douglas made M/L barrels in the time frame for your rifle but a subsequent lawsuit over a blown up barrel cost them a bundle and they decided to stop M/L barrel production. This was over 25 year ago.

The general consensus of opinion is the guy shot smokeless powder or shot with a barrel obstruction but a slick lawyer won the case for him.

GM doesn't show drop ins on their web site but I heard that was where Track was getting them. They stil cost about as much as a good used complete gun.

It cost me $140 to get a TC barrel rebored, about half the cost of a drop-in.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 03:56:17 am by Eric Krewson »

Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 09:08:05 am »
I would think a TC barrel could also be bored out to 20 ga., there might be more of them kicking around, looking for a home.  It would make a much faster and easier exchange.  If you hear of either a TC or a Buffalo Hunter barrel being available, please let me know.  Thanks,
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 02:38:27 pm »
The 1" can unless it has holes for a scope mount or the rear sight screw holes go too deep. Mr Hoyt wil measure everything to make sure the barrel is safe after a rebore.

Offline jeffhalfrack

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 03:15:28 pm »
I have a green mtn drop in for my tc hawken shoots very well I was a bp trad guy but now it's 777 and tc cheap shot sabot for me ,,,can I say where I got it from ? Jeffw

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2018, 04:14:10 am »
At once I was strictly a a trad bowhunter, before that I was an anything hunter as long as it was legal. Later on I transitioned to a trad bowhunter an shot an inline. About 15 years ago I went back to sidelocks, then flintlocks and selfbows because I had such an outstanding place to hunt.

I lost my good hunting land this year, I have some health issues, and have limited land to hunt so I have transitioned back to anything again, I like to have plenty of deer in the freezer and it looks kind'a bare so far this year.

I went on a Mgt area hunt yesterday with a modern rifle to up my chances, didn't see anything, first time I have carried a modern rifle in about 15 years.

There were two deer in the backyard when I got up this morning, it was raining cats and dogs, I didn't want to fool with one plus I have never shot a deer out of the back door and didn't want to this morning. There is about 100 acres of empty woods behind them and it is legal for me to shoot one, I let them walk.

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Old TC kit and shooting woes
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2018, 05:45:03 am »
Funny how we can seemingly evolve forwards and backwards.  I have recently bought a set of carbon fiber arrows after busting the last 4 of my last set of matched wood arrows.  I was seriously bothered by this.  I felt frustration at not being able to hit a 4x4 ft bag target consistently at 20 yards.  I knew the reason why was because I haven't shot for years. I knew one of the reasons I hated shooting was losing and breaking arrows.  I understand the reason I really hate losing and breaking arrows is that I DETEST making them. 

Ok, having drawn the logical line of reasoning I then asked myself how to cut this Gordian knot, to break out of this endless loop of negative feedback.   The answer was as elegant as it was simple. Buy some carbon fiber arrows.  Al, down at Black Hills Archery dang near talked me out of doing it, telling me how he loves the way I am so self-sufficient by making all I need from scratch, etc, etc.  But I pressed on.  We figured out how much spine was needed, how much weight we needed, how long to make these arrows, and what color feathers we would use to fletch (four fletch black and whites). He had them knocked out in no time and we went into the shooting lanes to give 'em a run.  He and I share the same draw length and we both marveled at how dang fast and straight they were flying, how hard they were hitting the backstop and burying themselves. He marveled at how smooth drawing Soy's little tiny scrap of osage called the Kestrel Bow was. 

I was shooting a bow and I was laughing. Yup, I am shooting space age cutting edge technology arrows through a bendy handle straight stick and string bow. Well...for now it has me shooting again.  You evolved from a trad bow guy to an inline to a sidelock to a fine custom gun born of your own hands and now something you refurbed with modern sights in order to make an ethical low light shot.  Once upon a time, and not so long ago, I would have thrown a little shade at you just for laughs.  Somehow today I don't see that you have really changed your internal "operating system" by changing your choice of equipment. I think the guidestar, the true north that has not shifted is your desire to be there in the woods. Literally AND figuratively, just how many roads lead to those woods?  Or for that matter, how many different woods are there to explore?  I am just happy to know you are happy. 
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.