Author Topic: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???  (Read 712 times)

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Offline Jakesnyder

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Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« on: October 08, 2021, 07:08:59 pm »
Does the location of a tree determine the ring density and ring thickness? Or is it more based on rain and soil nutrients? Also does bark still slip off wood in the north east this time of year?

Offline Pat B

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2021, 07:29:47 pm »
No. You can have 2 trees next to each other, one with thick rings, one with thin rings. I think location has something to do with it but genetics, sun or not, moisture, fertility and other things also affect trees and tree growth. You can do a core sample to see the rings. Dean Torges described how he did it in his book, "Hunting the Osage Bow".
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2021, 02:56:59 am »
The only generalisation you can safely make is that you can't make generalisations.  >:D
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline bownarra

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2021, 03:41:58 am »
Its not really the location of nutrients or water necessarily. It is more to do with the health of the soil and the microbiology present. Tree roots release root exudates when the tree needs a certain nutrient. These exudates attract the microbiology that cycles said nutrient. So the tree attracts its own nutrients. It isn't just what happens to be in contact with the roots. Similar deal with water too. Trees will also 'scarifice' the weaker members of a forest....
The life of trees is a facinating read for anybody looking to learn how trees actually live :) Teeming with nutrients is also pretty good.

Offline Jakesnyder

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2021, 03:46:13 am »
That makes sense...  )-w(so if a tree has great soil nutrients and soil microbiology then it would grow faster? Therefore have larger rings?
Also does the tree bark slip this time of year?

Offline PatM

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2021, 09:04:50 am »
I wouldn't worry too much about ring size. Most trees are just fine within their variation. Tough call on the bark slipping or not but it at least isn't likely to be glued in place.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2021, 09:23:20 am »
If you want a large ring count cut a tree that had to struggle to survive on the north side of a hill or deep in a hollow.

I once cut a nice straight hickory sapling about 8" in diameter from the bottom of a hollow, turned out it was 50 years old when I counted the rings.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 08:56:19 am by Eric Krewson »

Offline Pat B

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2021, 09:31:10 am »
The bark slips when the tree is in it's yearly growing cycle. I'd say that now is a little too late with the leaves starting to change color and fall off.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Jakesnyder

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2021, 10:32:54 am »
Thanks guys. Just debating on cutting some sugar maple. It's everywhere around here. Trying to start to replenish some that were lost in the fire. The couple that I have cut before were about 1/8th inch thick rings.
On a side note I cut into some osage staves that were in the fire that had been cut this past July and it's like the outside charred some about 1/2" in toward the center but they didn't really check. Like no drying cracks once you get past the char but you can still feel the moisture when you cut into it. It's almost like it forced the moisture in. Some were definitely ruined bit I do have a few that I can save!

Offline Jim Davis

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2021, 05:35:51 pm »
Ring thickness should have no influence in a sugar maple stave, since it is diffuse porous.
Jim Davis

Kentucky--formerly Maine

Offline Pat B

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2021, 12:34:09 pm »
I'd wait until spring before cutting any whitewood, maple included. By the time the leaves are out the tree is well into the growing season so the bark should slip revealing a pristine back ring.  For woods like osage, locust and mulberry any time of year is ok for cutting bow wood. Some say winter is the best time for these woods because of lower moisture which may be true but you can still cut them during the growing season but you may have to be more observant during the drying process but other than that the end result is the same.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Jakesnyder

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2021, 08:47:18 am »
So ring thickness doesn't corrilate to wood density in diffuse porous woods?

Offline PatM

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2021, 02:09:55 pm »
Not particularly it seems.  I find with Maple and HHB that the rings perhaps never vary enough in size to really consider that as a factor.

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2021, 10:04:57 pm »
As far as conifers go, I have always heard high elevation yew has the tightest rings but would not know. Iíve definitely noticed the juniper growing on mountain range islands in the Great Basin with low annual rainfall has much tighter rings than juniper from wetter places. The thing is Iíve found the right ring bows donít shoot any faster with sinew backing. The tight ring bows are much harder to break though.

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Location of trees determining the density and ring thickness???
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2021, 03:42:55 pm »
The only generalisation you can safely make is that you can't make generalisations.  >:D
Del

Well, generally...
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.