Author Topic: tiller advice - update  (Read 807 times)

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Offline Jjpso

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tiller advice - update
« on: October 24, 2021, 01:23:42 pm »
Hello there.
I would like to have your opinion on the tiller of this bow
this is the first bend in the handle bow I am building.
its a black locust recurve with wide limbs and narrow handle. Symmetrical limbs.
its 53 inches ntn, with static recurves, 6 inches long fades with 4 inches long handle, 2 1/4 wide at the fades tappering to 3/4 inches at the start of the recurves. The handle is a hair under 30 mm wide.
in the photo and video its 60# at 20inches at the moment. Trying to take it to my draw of 25 inches
how does it look to you?!
the handle is not bending yet, but I can see some movement in the fades while drawing in the tillering tree, so when would you start to make the handle move some?
what is your opinion on the tillering until now?
where should I scrape next?
thanks in advance
regards from Portugal
Jo„o oliveira
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 12:30:49 pm by Jjpso »

Offline Pat B

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2021, 01:45:42 pm »
Joao, so far your tiller looks good. When I do a bendy handle bow I like to feel the handle give just a little as I reach full draw. I do this by bringing the bend into the handle at the very end of the tillering process. Be careful because of the leverage of the limbs can cause too much bend if you work this way too quickly.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Jjpso

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2021, 01:54:26 pm »
Joao, so far your tiller looks good. When I do a bendy handle bow I like to feel the handle give just a little as I reach full draw. I do this by bringing the bend into the handle at the very end of the tillering process. Be careful because of the leverage of the limbs can cause too much bend if you work this way too quickly.

thanks Pat B.
i have read a lot of post regarding bend in the handle bows, so I am aware that the handle can only bend a little in the end of the draw.
the thing is that I am only at 20 inches draw (5 more to go) and seem to me that I am "running out of bow"...
would you say to keep scraping the entire limbs and fades or just in the limbs?

« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 02:28:22 pm by Jjpso »

Offline bownarra

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2021, 02:52:54 pm »
@normall' bendy handle bows are made with the handle as the widest part of the bow or at least only a little narrower than the limbs. Bending into those fades could cause them to fail as the lateral grain is cut through. I wouldn't allow much more bend in the handle area. With these dersign limitations in mind really the bow is too short....you can get more bend from the limbs though. It appears well balanced. You will struggle to get to your drawlength.
For a 25" draw I would go around 60" and not have the limbs any wider than the handle. The extra length will allow narrower limbs.

Offline Pat B

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2021, 03:01:08 pm »
Your tiller is looking good so I would just scrape each limb from fade to tip until you get close to your draw weight then bring it back to the fades.
 Bownarra, My bendy handle bows have narrowed, bulbous handles with fades and I can still feel a slight bend when I hit full draw.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline NonBacked

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2021, 04:48:54 pm »
If you're trying to maintain 60# at 25", you're stretching that Black Locust to its limit. It would be a shame to lose all the "good" work you've done so far, if the bow fails. Keep working on the tiller shape (it won't need much), monitor the set, and take whatever poundage you get at your draw length. Good job so far!

Offline RyanY

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2021, 05:12:45 pm »
Given the length of your fades I wouldnít worry about them splitting due to runout. Rather, having a narrower thicker section that bends will likely be at a higher strain than the wide thin limbs leading to higher probability of failure in that area.

I would go for a circular tiller for the limbs and get the fades bending slight and the handle bending imperceptibly. Itíll look elliptical at full draw.

Offline bownarra

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2021, 02:21:47 am »
Your tiller is looking good so I would just scrape each limb from fade to tip until you get close to your draw weight then bring it back to the fades.
 Bownarra, My bendy handle bows have narrowed, bulbous handles with fades and I can still feel a slight bend when I hit full draw.

Nice one :) But I said what I did because it has happened twice to me. Remember the middle is the highest strained part.....I'm talking about good practise for beginners and not what you can get away with. Of course I know that it can be done but on this particular bow for a beginner.....not ideal.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2021, 10:26:28 am »
Your tiller is looking good so I would just scrape each limb from fade to tip until you get close to your draw weight then bring it back to the fades.
 Bownarra, My bendy handle bows have narrowed, bulbous handles with fades and I can still feel a slight bend when I hit full draw.
my seventh bow was this way. Not on purpose but you could feel it at full draw. One of my regular handles with a shelf. It would bend so slightly right under the shelf. That was a good bow in my earlier days. Oh it did blow a few years latter but not in the handle. Oh Iím sorry nice tiller and  good looking bow! Arvin
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 10:32:31 am by Selfbowman »
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline simson

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2021, 12:06:57 pm »
I have often made bows like that, the bend on fades and handles is the last thing in tiller process.
If it would up to me, I would scrape a little on the inner halves (both). Then watch what fades and handle are doing, maybe they need then a little scrape for the last inch to wrench out. I'm pretty sure you are doing well on this bow, just work slow and exercise the bending.
Good luck my friend!
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline bjrogg

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2021, 12:50:34 pm »
Iím seeing what Simson is seeing.

I do think from pictures I would stay away from area about two inches above arrow pass. Looks like it might be bending slightly more there. Then just past that area it seems a little stiff.

Getting the inner half bending just a little more will help that spot out of the upper fade.

Lower fade might be a little stiff. I would save that till last though.

I know guys make that narrow handle bend and I have before to. But like Bownarra it does make me a little nervous. I had one I ended up wrapping where grain ran off fade.

Bjrogg

PS itís looking really nice so far and my criticism is very minor. Only meant as a suggestion.

A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline Jjpso

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Re: tiller advice
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2021, 05:54:44 am »
thank you all for your advice! I will try not to break it! ;D

I have often made bows like that, the bend on fades and handles is the last thing in tiller process.
If it would up to me, I would scrape a little on the inner halves (both). Then watch what fades and handle are doing, maybe they need then a little scrape for the last inch to wrench out. I'm pretty sure you are doing well on this bow, just work slow and exercise the bending.
Good luck my friend!
Simon, my friend, this bow was actually inspired in your "three toes" Osage bow! lets see how it goes! 
regards to all!

Offline Jjpso

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Re: tiller advice - update
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2021, 12:42:34 pm »
Ok, here it is at 22 inches draw. 3 more to go (hopefully)
Its 59 lbs, with 1/16 positive tiller.
I would say the top limb could use bending a little more compared to the lower.
Where would you get those last 3 inches?