Author Topic: Practice  (Read 2376 times)

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Offline Allyn T

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Practice
« on: September 23, 2022, 09:47:48 pm »
I've been shooting every night in my basement trying to get good enough to hunt. Even though I was shooting I wasn't getting any better. I watched some clay hayes shooting videos and the last two nights I've incorporated some of the form pointers he made and instantly got better. I can also feel a soreness in the muscle behind my shoulder blade so that means I'm actually using back tension for once. Just wanted to say that practice doesn't make perfect. If you practice improperly you are only reinforcing your mistakes.
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Practice
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2022, 10:23:35 pm »
Great point, I ďpracticedĒ stuff I had no idea for years cause no one taught me anything right and I didnít seek out the right information. I love that sore muscle behind shoulder, that lower trap getting sore

Offline TimBo

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Re: Practice
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2022, 09:55:59 am »
Yup - I prefer "PERFECT practice makes perfect", and have also heard "practice makes permanent"...definitely it takes forever to get rid of bad habits if you have practiced them that way for a while (like ten times as long as it took to learn them wrong in the first place). 

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Practice
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2022, 08:14:25 am »
It's difficult to work on one aspect at a time to develop muscle memory. Right now I'm trying to make sure I bring my elbow all the way around every time and as a result my release is suffering. My mind really cannot do two things at once.
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Practice
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2022, 10:58:24 am »
I also have trouble with that. At first I couldnít deal with going through all the steps of a good shot and making them all come together. I heard the conscious mind can only focus and direct one activity at a time. Broke down my shooting into segments. For me, setup (getting grip, hook, stance set, raising bow to target). Load (draw to full scapular engagement) lock (lifting into anchor and locking into transfer to holding) Point (aiming arrow at target) here we go (shot finish by increasing back tension while simultaneously moving my anchored thumb towards trigger).

I was unsure of how to incorporate a tension finish shot (the only good way to finish a shot) while at the same time focusing on my psychological trigger. Then I heard a podcast on The Push where they talked about exactly this, that you can link two motor programs (back tension plus movement towards trigger, in this instance). Two movements with one goal. So now some of the first steps in my shot cycle (setup, load, lock) are becoming habit and I let them go to muscle memory. Except lock, I keep that in my internal verbal commands because itís likely to let slip. My main focus now is a good tension finish to the shot, so thereís a lot of focus on that last part after aiming (here we go) because my release is the most difficult part of the shot. Itís totally a subconscious release.  When I feel my thumb hit the tab leather the release just occurs, and occurs well when I am focused on increasing tension until the shot breaks.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 11:02:21 am by Kenneth »

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Practice
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2022, 07:55:38 pm »
Your shot is a lot more complex than mine. I make sure I have a hook, relaxed grip comes easy because it's the same way I gripped my compound. Then I just focus on the target while exhaling and drawing. Once my finger finds the corner of my mouth I keep bringing my elbow back until it is lined up properly and then either hold trying to get the feel for full draw or I release as soon as I get to full draw. My release is always way cleaner when I don't hold.
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Practice
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2022, 08:21:41 pm »
Your shot is a lot more complex than mine. I make sure I have a hook, relaxed grip comes easy because it's the same way I gripped my compound. Then I just focus on the target while exhaling and drawing. Once my finger finds the corner of my mouth I keep bringing my elbow back until it is lined up properly and then either hold trying to get the feel for full draw or I release as soon as I get to full draw. My release is always way cleaner when I don't hold.

Release cleaner with no hold only makes sense. That is why my release was poor up until recently. Because with no hold, you have an open loop shot where you drive tension through the shot with no pause and the release is triggered by the sight picture looking correct to your subconscious (or so I would imagine). So with my hold and aim my release was happening with poor tension and I would guess I was collapsing a little. But now that I have linked driving back tension with the tab touch the release is beautiful and my draw hand ends up behind my shoulder in that classic motion you see pros seem to have. In fact I would just give up the tab touch. But I would go right down the target panic rabbit hole without it. Sometimes I practice without it to discipline myself and make sure Iím in control of the shot. I take a breath in then allow the release to occur.

Another interesting difference in our shots is that you are drawing to anchor then getting yourself into full alignment, whereas I am getting into full alignment and then lifting up slightly into anchor. Different ways of doing it. I have to be careful because I gave myself an impingement drawing into a high anchor last year and I was out of back tension. My poor shoulder took a beating. So I am way more fussy with getting into that back scapular engagement right away. Some donít seem to ever have to deal with this issue.

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Practice
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2022, 01:06:51 pm »
I never thought of drawing low and then bringing it up. I might have to try that.
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Practice
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2022, 01:47:33 pm »
I never thought of drawing low and then bringing it up. I might have to try that.

Yea when I first started doing that I drew pretty far under my anchor point and had a pretty big lift to get into anchor. I learned to just draw to right under anchor and then a slight lift into anchor so itís all one seamless motion. Back tension has been great. Love it all so far. Also my anchor isnít all that high. My index finger knuckle tucks just under/behind my cheekbone and my thumb knuckle goes under my jawbone. My index and middle finger tips go just behind corner of mouth. I shoot three under the arrow to get arrow closer under my eye. Any higher of an anchor than that and I feel like itís hard to keep the load In my back

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Practice
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2022, 11:36:02 pm »
watch byron ferguson, draw and anchor,,

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Practice
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2022, 09:31:20 am »
I looked him up Brad but I couldn't find any form videos. Kenneth lifting didn't really feel right to me, gonna keep practicing like I have been and see what happens. Actually had a bullseye last night
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Practice
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2022, 07:32:18 am »
So Im starting to figure out how to keep my forearm relaxed while shooting. It has made a big difference
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Practice
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2022, 07:35:02 pm »
Is it your drawing arm your relaxing?

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Practice
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2022, 08:33:33 pm »
Yes, work in progress
In the woods I find my peace

Offline ssrhythm

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Re: Practice
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2022, 01:42:08 am »
This kinda piggy backs from my "Hunt ready accuracy" thread response.  I've got enough hippy left in my from my Grateful Dead touring days to just "feel it."  I'm thankful for that, because if I engage my conscious brain as much as y'all are, this endeavor of shooting a primitive stick well would turn me into a babbling basket case. 

I played college tennis and was ultra competitive with it from 8th grade until I quit my sophomore year of college to focus on more enlightening life experiences.  I was playing like shid on a stick one match against a guy I had absolutely owned in junior tournaments...it was awful, and I had pretty much conceded that it just wasn't my day.  On a change over, my 60 year old, pot-smoking, beer drinking, crazy like a fox coach pulled me over to the fence and proceeded to tell me some wild story about hooking up with a couple of "hot chicks" in his van at a concert back before I was born.  I listened and kept waiting for him to tie this story into some Mr. Miagi-esque insight relative to turning around this ass-kicking I was receiving; the "ah-ha" moment never came.  I asked him what the heck that had to do with the price of eggs in China, and he said, "Nothing!  I've been eyeing that guy as we've been talking, and he is all kinds of curious about the great advice I've been giving you.  Buckle down, and on the next change over, go up to him and complement him on how well he is serving and ask him as seriously as you can whether he breathes in or out when he tosses the ball up on his serve.  You won't lose another game."  And he walked off cackling.

We split the next two games, and I did what coach said at the next changeover.  That dude proceeded to fall apart, and I might have lost two, maybe three points the rest of the match.

It was an amazing lesson.  Coach had effectively removed my mind from how awful I was playing and trying to figure out what I could do to change it...and we got the other guy overthinking stuff...stuff that no-one thinks about at that level of play.  Unfortunately, what we did to that guy is exactly what I do to myself whenever I try to concentrate too much on form when I'm shooting.  I know I'd benefit from some serious shooting and form training, but when it comes to this aspect of archery, I'm a freaking mental midget.  My best bet is to "clear the mechanism," do my best to not think about anything, and just focus on nothing but the spot I want to hit and let it just happen.  Its like shooting a basketball for me; I can drain jumpers all day from any reasonable distance, but put me on the line for free throws...I might make 2 of 8 on a good day. 

I don't know it is a blessing or a curse, but I'm too old to change now.