Author Topic: is my project doomed from the start?  (Read 775 times)

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Offline Zugul

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is my project doomed from the start?
« on: November 16, 2023, 08:33:27 am »
Hi guys, it's been a long time since I posted on the forum. in the last weeks I've had a bit of free time so I started a new bow, but I think I messed up the design. I've already taken down the stave to this dimensions: 63" long (it was pretty short from the start), 1 1/3" wide in the 4" handle section and from there a straight taper to 1/2" tips. Wood is black locust. My idea was to make a bendy handle flat bow using the faceted tillering method, 35-40# at 28" of draw. Is it a decent design or the very narrow limbs will probably fret?  (--)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 08:38:43 am by Zugul »

Offline RyanY

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2023, 09:03:18 am »
Sounds quite narrow but possible for a good piece of wood with perfect tiller.

Offline Jim Davis

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2023, 10:20:29 am »
I'd bet they'd fret.

Only one way to find out.
Jim Davis

Kentucky--formerly Maine

Offline Pat B

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2023, 01:18:09 pm »
The length is fine for a 28" draw but the width is a bit narrow for locust. Bending through the handle will help it out and you can heat treat locust and that should help also but it will still take good tillering and easing through the process.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Aksel

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2023, 03:18:42 pm »


For sure it can be done if you let every part of the bow do some work (except for stiffer tips).

Good tiller from the start as well correct WIDTH taper of the bow
 (often reason why white wood bows fret) is essential.


Let us know how its going  :)
Stoneagebows

Offline Aksel

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2023, 04:00:03 pm »
Just to give you some encouragement.

This bow is from a Norway maple sapling- Acer platanoides. Im not sure how it compares with locust but still... I think it is far from doomed!

Its 1,3" wide,
64" ntn
#50 at 27" (Its been tested to 28")
And holds a reflex of 1,5"

slightly rounded back and flat belly. Bends in handle

Excuse the bad pictures but you get an idea.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 04:07:45 pm by Aksel »
Stoneagebows

Offline M2A

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2023, 12:12:02 am »
I like to keep the middle 1/3 parallel and taper the outers. That said I have done 1.25" wide with that layout and been successful for 50 lb locust bows. I never tried to taper the whole limb(s) but at 40 lb draw i think you have a good enough chance to give it a go. I'd keep the nocks short to get 62" ntn, heat treat, and at about 20 inches on the tiller trap the back 1/8" inch on each side. It ought to have a real good cast with your design. Hope to see this piece all finished up. good luck!
Mike       

Offline willie

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2023, 04:53:43 pm »
Quote
Is it a decent design or the very narrow limbs will probably fret?

decent design (length and width ) is fine, as it is similar to many primitive bows

will your stave make your weight goal without fretting is a slightly different question.
if you find the bow starting to take set early, you might lower your weight goal.

trace an outline of the back on a piece of cardboard before starting tillering. with this you can
watch for tempory set upon unstringing and monitor tempory set recovery rates



Offline Zugul

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2023, 06:01:23 pm »
thanks everyone for your insight, I'll post some pics in the next days and then move forward. I'm a little more confident now, but I'll make sure to go on very slowly and carefully.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2023, 12:17:11 pm »
I think your pushing limits for sure.  Im interested to find out about the even diminishing though. Being a bend in the handle bow it might make it. Black locust is pretty dense. Should turn out about 5/8 thick Im guessing.40# seems reasonable.
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline Zugul

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2023, 08:34:04 pm »
So, here are a few pics of the stave I'm working with.

The stave is not straight but since it's not very wide i think it won't be very hard to correct it with dry heat and some oil


Early to late wood ratio does not seem that bad, but this end has already been thinned. Just under that section there is one with thin rings and 1:1 early to late wood ratio, wich probably will not get removed during tillering in the mid section of the bow.


This feature is a cluster of pin knots, just above mid limb. I've left quite a bit of wood around it but it's pretty prominent and I think I should leave it stiffer then the rest of the limb to prevent if from failing in tension.
How bad do you think the situation is now?  (--)

Offline Kidder

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2023, 12:47:52 am »
I like it. Looks like youve done well with those knots. As long as you go slow and keep the bend even during tillering, Im optimistic!

Offline Aksel

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2023, 04:43:39 am »
That knot makes it absolutely critical you make sure you distribute the bend evenly on an already short bow.  But I think it can be done. Much up to you but also depends if the wood is good or of less good quality. Go slow and keep a bucket with ice water next to you to dunk your head in when youre getting impatient.
Stoneagebows

Offline Zugul

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Re: is my project doomed from the start?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2023, 12:52:43 pm »
Today I spent an hour getting closer to initial tillering dimentions. As said in my first post on this thread I'd like to try the faceted tillering method, but since the bow will be very stressed I've opted for very narrow inclined facets, so the belly will be nearly flat and not very rounded, to distribute better the strain it will face. At this point the stave weight is 607 grams or 21.4 oz. My estimate is that it still holds around 12% moisture, so I'll move it to a drier spot of the house. Next time I'll work on it I'll round a bit the sharp corners and then search for thick spots with a caliper to make sure I have a nice thickness taper before starting to bend the bow.

Go slow and keep a bucket with ice water next to you to dunk your head in when youre getting impatient.

This advice is crucial since impatience is my biggest enemy   :-[
Of course any other advice is more then welcome, thanks for your time guys!