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Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.

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Selfbowman:
My experience with sinew and tb3 has is it takes for ever to dry. But I only did one so don’t count on my experience.!🤠and by the way I was laughing my butt off at your trying  the chew thing. I’m sure it worked 5000 years ago and would work today but why and if those guys had the knowledge of today they might do it differently. 🤠enjoying Dave

Gordon:

--- Quote ---The benefits I foresee could possibly be:

1. Increased water resistance
2. Increased adhesive properties.
3. Easier to repair if repairs needed in the field.
4. Water soluble and easy clean up and application.
--- End quote ---

A few questions. Why do you believe that Titebond would possess superior adhesion qualities to hide glue given that the latter will naturally fuse with the sinew matrix and wood surface? Why would Titebond be easier to repair than hide glue given that the latter can be easily debonded by simply heating and/or applying water unlike Titebond? Why would Titebond be easier to cleanup than hide glue given that both are water soluble in the liquid state (and the latter while also in a solid state)? I do agree with that a Titebond/sinew matrix would likely be more water resistant than a hide glue matrix.

superdav95:

--- Quote from: Gordon on January 28, 2024, 02:50:51 pm ---
--- Quote ---The benefits I foresee could possibly be:

1. Increased water resistance
2. Increased adhesive properties.
3. Easier to repair if repairs needed in the field.
4. Water soluble and easy clean up and application.
--- End quote ---

A few questions. Why do you believe that Titebond would possess superior adhesion qualities to hide glue given that the latter will naturally fuse with the sinew matrix and wood surface? Why would Titebond be easier to repair than hide glue given that the latter can be easily debonded by simply heating and/or applying water unlike Titebond? Why would Titebond be easier to cleanup than hide glue given that both are water soluble in the liquid state (and the latter while also in a solid state)? I do agree with that a Titebond/sinew matrix would likely be more water resistant than a hide glue matrix.

--- End quote ---

Thanks for the questions Gordon.  I’m not certain just theories.  My reasoning and theories may in fact be flawed and am willing to accept that.  I’ve had great luck with hide glue, fish glues and such so that much I know to the level I can know it’s capabilities.  I’ve also used titebond with good results for some things.  I’ve seen great adhesion with both.  The problem with hide glue or most protein based natural glues is the time it takes to cure especially in the field during a hunt. For a minor repair that requires no water and just little heat if possible might be the exception to what I’m about to say…  Drying time does become an issue with hide type glues compared to commercial glues and epoxy.  In the field even a water soluable glue like tb3 may get you back up and in the hunt in a day or two depending on the repair.  On the other hand Having to rehydrate layers of sinew by adding more sinew or a patch of sinew I suspect would be longer to dry out and then seal up to get it ready for the hunt again.  Even if I were to speed dry each repair over mild heat source I suspect that the tb3 or the like would dry and cure faster then a similar patch of hide glue and sinew to be usable.  I could be wrong but that’s my guess.  Having built many sinewed backed bows and doing patch repairs here and there at the house I've observed that it may feel dry to the touch but is still cool to the touch indicating that it still not fully cured and dry even a week later.  Don’t get me wrong I love the obvious benefits in performance the sinew and natural glues gives.  Part of me is just curious if the benefits are overrated to some degree and negated somewhat by the rapid moisture absorption that happens with sinewed bows in higher humidity.   The tb3 may offer similar performance results and be less affected by moisture then the hide glue option.  I’ve done my very best to seal up my sinew backed bows and it helps for sure but the longer I’m out in the open outside air it shows a noticeable change in draw weight and recovery to its reflex especially in high humidity.  I guess I’m hoping the results are going to be favourable if I go the route of using tb3.  I suspect it may be a toss up in the end when it comes right down to it.   We shall see. 

Gordon:
Dave, to be clear, I am not questioning the utility of your experiment. I am only questioning some of the assumed benefits. That said, as someone who has ruined two sinew backed bows by exposing them to hard use over several days of heavy rain, I am most interested in what you discover. Regarding the ability to perform field repairs, what sort of issues do you anticipate might arise that are specific to a sinew back that might, as a practical matter, be repairable in the field - I honestly can't think of any. My advice, based on hard experience, for anyone that hunts with a sinew back bow is bring a spare non-sinew backed bow with you in the event that weather conditions take a turn for the worse.

superdav95:

--- Quote from: Gordon on January 28, 2024, 06:01:28 pm ---Dave, to be clear, I am not questioning the utility of your experiment. I am only questioning some of the assumed benefits. That said, as someone who has ruined two sinew backed bows by exposing them to hard use over several days of heavy rain, I am most interested in what you discover. Regarding the ability to perform field repairs, what sort of issues do you anticipate might arise that are specific to a sinew back that might, as a practical matter, be repairable in the field - I honestly can't think of any. My advice, based on hard experience, for anyone that hunts with a sinew back bow is bring a spare non-sinew backed bow with you in the event that weather conditions take a turn for the worse.

--- End quote ---

Gordon.  It’s hard to convey meaning over text in a reply.  Never thought you were questioning the utility of this hair brained idea.  I too question the assumed benefits so I guess I’ll join in on that!  Lol.  I’m really not sure what will happen actually.  I’ve heard guys on the net posting their results and what not but I haven’t tried it myself so I’m basing my assumptions on what I believe might happen with using the tb3.  This is based on my limited use of it mind you.  I had good hard results as far as it setting up.  Others on here mentioned it was not as hard and even rubbery or flexible.  As far as in the field,  yes it would definitely be better to just bring another bow as a back up if the primary one is sinew backed.    This is not the scenario I’m thinking of.  The scenario I’m thinking of may not make sense to everyone as I explain it here but it’s a specific scenario that I’m going to allow myself to be in as a participant.   to only have one bow preferably made by me and don’t want to use a fg trad bow.  In this situation it will be exposed to various weather mostly cold.  The bow would need to be very durable and hard hitting  enough to take big game.  My thought on this originally was to get a good Osage bow backed with sinew covered with snake skins or something poss thin raw hide. I still may do that depending on how these do…  I would seal this up well prior to embarking.  It’s by choice and design to have only one bow.  That being said in the end depending on the repair both variants would be easy enough to repair in the field.  The major benefit would be the moisture resistance of tb3 version.  I may build one with hide glue and one with tb3 and test them out to see what I get.  I may see about different coatings like even epoxy coatings possibly.  I know there are some activated epoxy sprays that are good too.   The initial test is seeing differences in performance of the two.  I’ll deal with water proofing it later. 

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