Author Topic: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.  (Read 5031 times)

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Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2024, 02:42:50 pm »
After 6 days of drying both bows are still loosing mass in water weight.

Heartwood only bow:

675gr - before sizing coats and tb3 and sinew. 

833.63gr - just after 65-70gr sinew and any tb3 glue likley in fairly equal measure. 

766.33gr - 6 days of drying. 


Iíll keep monitoring the weights over next week or so and likley notice a drop in weight loss each day. 

Iíll noticed using the moose back strap sinew it is much courser then deer.  Iíve developed voids on the surface on both bows as they dry.  It may not be an issue hopefully.  I may fill in some of the larger ones to make me feel little better.  We shall see.  Thanks for looking


Sapwood/heartwood bow:

645.55gr - before any sinew or sizing coats or sinew glue 31 Jan. 

797.07gr - just after sinew and all sizing coats and equal measure of hide glue.

726.99gr - 6 days of drying. 

Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

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Offline pierce_schmeichel

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2024, 03:14:14 pm »
Looking good Dave, Lots of chewing on them bows but feel sure it will work if your yaws don't get worn out.  ;) :)
 Pappy

Thanks pappy!   Ya itís gonna be lots of chewing for certain.  I may have to split it up over a couple days.  Iíve been toying with the idea of a spit bowl and letting it soak it there too to assist with the amount of sinew Iím gonna be dealing with.

Hahaha putting our find to use!! I love it!!!

Offline pierce_schmeichel

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2024, 03:35:39 pm »
Oops my bad I didn't keep reading! But yeah I know what you mean about the taste. I have noticed the backstrap has more of a taste than the leg sinew too. I thought it was kinda gross right away but then after a little while I got used to it and now I honestly kind of like it. I think it might be one of those acquired taste things. But speaking to the ability to do it quick I just put 20 strands in my mouth at a time. 10 on each side of my mouth. Then take 10 out of one side and put 10 more new ones in on that side and keep on chewing as I apply them to the bow. This morning I did 1 full layer in 12 minutes this way. It can be pretty quick. Oh yeah and it also dries much more quickly. Faster than the hide glue method even because when you use the hide glue it makes a film on the surface of the sinew that traps the moisture in. When you chew it there isn't a film.

Offline Muskyman

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2024, 06:01:14 pm »
When I get around to doing one with sinew I think Iíll stick with the hide glue. Just not really into the chewing on a dead animal unless itís like a steak 🥩 or something like that. Not really into the gagging thing or anything rancid tasting. Iíd probably do the projectile vomiting thing all over my bow. Makes me feel a little queasy just thinking about it.
Bows are looking great either way Dave. 👍

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2024, 08:27:41 pm »
So did you weigh the sinew and glue first and also the bow. Then weigh what you did not use.Ok about how much weight will the glue lose in drying process? I assume the sinew wonít lose weight.
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2024, 10:11:06 pm »
Oops my bad I didn't keep reading! But yeah I know what you mean about the taste. I have noticed the backstrap has more of a taste than the leg sinew too. I thought it was kinda gross right away but then after a little while I got used to it and now I honestly kind of like it. I think it might be one of those acquired taste things. But speaking to the ability to do it quick I just put 20 strands in my mouth at a time. 10 on each side of my mouth. Then take 10 out of one side and put 10 more new ones in on that side and keep on chewing as I apply them to the bow. This morning I did 1 full layer in 12 minutes this way. It can be pretty quick. Oh yeah and it also dries much more quickly. Faster than the hide glue method even because when you use the hide glue it makes a film on the surface of the sinew that traps the moisture in. When you chew it there isn't a film.

I gave it a shot anyway.  I may try it on a single bow down the road and use leg tendon instead. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

superdav95@gmail.com

Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2024, 10:13:00 pm »
When I get around to doing one with sinew I think Iíll stick with the hide glue. Just not really into the chewing on a dead animal unless itís like a steak 🥩 or something like that. Not really into the gagging thing or anything rancid tasting. Iíd probably do the projectile vomiting thing all over my bow. Makes me feel a little queasy just thinking about it.
Bows are looking great either way Dave. 👍

Thanks mike. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

superdav95@gmail.com

Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2024, 10:20:28 pm »
So did you weigh the sinew and glue first and also the bow. Then weigh what you did not use.Ok about how much weight will the glue lose in drying process? I assume the sinew wonít lose weight.

Ya I measured out each bundle and the glue.  The loss in mass will be moisture loss only.  I figure once they get down to original weight plus about 75-80gr should be very close to fully dry.  I still have some scrapes to do yet on both bows so more weight will be lost from this as well. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

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Offline pierce_schmeichel

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2024, 12:54:24 pm »
I know it's too late to say this but one of the biggest reasons I don't use tite bond 3 over hide glue is because then you can't reuse the sinew if somehow the bow breaks or something goes wrong.

With hide glue you can just submerge the project in water to let the sinew rehydrate and it comes right off. You can then separate the sinew fibers. From there you can either freeze it wet, dry it out, or apply it to the next project.

Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2024, 01:51:47 pm »
I know it's too late to say this but one of the biggest reasons I don't use tite bond 3 over hide glue is because then you can't reuse the sinew if somehow the bow breaks or something goes wrong.

With hide glue you can just submerge the project in water to let the sinew rehydrate and it comes right off. You can then separate the sinew fibers. From there you can either freeze it wet, dry it out, or apply it to the next project.

Thanks pierce.  I do realize this is one of the downsides to using tb3.  I was willing to take that chance to test out some things.  Best case scenario is that it works well and holds up.  Worst case is it breaks in an explosive way.  If the tb3 and sinew combo itself fails and heartwood bow is still ok then I can alway strip off the tb3 and sinew and apply sinew traditional way. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

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Offline bjrogg

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2024, 01:49:53 pm »
Iíve been trying to keep up with your build Dave.

Was looking forward to seeing what your thoughts were about the chewed sinew. I have never backed a bow with sinew but I have used it in lots of other applications. Really pretty amazing stuff.

I have noticed it clings to itself much better if I rehydrate it in my mouth than with just plain water.

I usually donít so much chew it. I wet it down with my tongue and then just put it in my mouth and let it rehydrate. The cleaner and more refined the better. I actually can see how the process could work.

Would you have sized the bow with hide glue first?

Bjrogg
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Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2024, 09:22:44 pm »
Thanks bjorg.  Ya I tried to chew it initially but it kinda grossed me out.  I did find that it was a messy ordeal too.  I noticed for me trying to unbunch the mess from my mouth was time consuming and was not an efficient way to lay sinew.  In my opinion it was just plain messy and unorganized way of applying sinew.  I also did find that if laying it down over an uneven surface with high reflex it had the tendency to lift off.  I then tried to wrap it and that did work ok but I question the holding strength of just sinew alone with no glue added.   Just my observations in trying it before I gave up on it and went back to my tried and tested way of doing it.  It is very cool stuff when done right.  My opinion is that it obviously can be done but not my preferred method for sure.  I use a pretty thin mix for my hide glue when laying it down and it seems to work well for me.  Too much heavy glue is self defeating with added mass.  Just my opinions and observations. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

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Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2024, 03:35:59 pm »
Ok Iím gonna throw out some questions on these two bow builds.  I e had some concerns pop up after two weeks of letting them dry.  So far here is what I have,

The heartwood only billet bow sinewed with tb3 retained about 4.5Ē reflex after removing back string. 

The sapwood/heartwood bow sinewed with hide glue retained about 5.5Ē reflex after removing back string.

Both started with same reflex prior to adding 65-70 grams of sinew. 

Another observation I noticed that the heartwood only bow took longer to dry and get to the point of no longer loosing mass.  The last few days the bow remained the same mass. 

The sapwood/heartwood version stopped loosing mass pretty well after the first week.  Loosing very little the second week of any at all. 

I did some sanding on both today and they look pretty good however some concerns have popped up. 

There is some grain run off out towards the flipped tips on the heartwood bow.  Iíve posted a few pics here.  See first two.   The sinew I laid down didnít cover this area as I had decided against it wanting to keep the tips lighter.  I still have some shaping and narrowing to do yet on them. 

1.  Should I just add a little more sinew out at the tips to cover these spots?   Will that be enough to keep it together and prevent it from separation at run off? 

2. Should I just add some rawhide to the back over the sinew and also cover out to the tips?

3. Should I add a back lamination of thin horn to this area to prevent separation at run off? 

The sapwood bow is less of a concern but there is a knot out near one of the tips that Iím little worried about.  Same questions above for this scenario.   I did plan on removing the wrap of sinew at the ends of this bow when dry if I end up covering with rawhide. 

Let me know your opinions and thoughts as to possible solutions I may be overlooking.  Maybe Iím worried for nothing and let me know that too. 

Thanks guys!
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

superdav95@gmail.com

Offline Muskyman

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2024, 05:58:11 pm »
Iím going to ask a question just for myself here. Could you trap the back of the bow and get rid of the runoff?

Offline superdav95

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Re: Yew billets belly drop build with sinew backing.
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2024, 06:12:58 pm »
Iím going to ask a question just for myself here. Could you trap the back of the bow and get rid of the runoff?

I could trap the back but it would be hard to avoid affecting the sinew layer already down.     
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

superdav95@gmail.com