Wych Elm reflex deflex

[jameswoodmot]

So this kinda started as a plan to make a r/d similar to the Ash one I did a couple of months ago to get an idea of the difference in what the wood can do. The reality is that the staves are so different that I can’t make a comparison. The Ash was about 2’ in diameter and the Elm and 2 1/2” so just completely different cross sections.
I’ve made this one the same length at 61” (1” longer than the ash) as that was the length of the stave. This piece is what I call a “top”, the elm saplings round here grow to about 5-6’ then have the first major side branch and then you get a skinnier, wobblier piece above that. For me anything above the first section is bonus wood.

Fire hardened it twice, the first time I didn’t have enough charcoal on the fire and just didn’t get the depth of hardening so I took some more wood off and gave it a second cook.

Plan to start tillering this evening. 40lb would be amazing but I’ll probably end up around 35.

It’s got a bit of a wobble on the top limb which is something I haven’t dealt with yet. I’m going to glue on a ride once I’m sure I’m not going to heat it any more and it’s going to have a modern style arrow shelf so hopefully I can actually hit stuff.

[Pappy]

Looks like a good start, I love the RD style, very smooth to draw and shoot. Looking forward to seeing more.
 Pappy

[bassman211]

95% of the time when I build elm bows I get good results, and mine is just American elm. Never belly frets for me. Takes heat well. Holds its shape, draws smooth, and is a fairly fast wood. Case in point....I just reduced a 40lb. reflex , deflex  elm bow to 30 lbs., and used Arvin's specs. The bow at 30 lbs. with a 25 inch draw shoots a 355 gr arrow at 145fps. My best so far after having reduced a half dozen other bows with different woods using the same specs. I have no doubt when you are done with yours you will be well pleased.

[Pat B]

I love elm as a bow wood. I've only used winged and red elm but both impressed me, bows were short, around 60" and recurved. They both took heat treating well. I have another in the works, 60" recurve but this one will have sinew backing. I'm hoping to get it done this winter. Not sure what elm it is. The stave I acquired at the Tenn Classic last spring. It had been seasoned for 15 years.
 Looking forward to seeing yours completed.   

[bentstick54]

I’ve never worked with any type of elm, so looking forward to watching.

[Doug509]

I'll be following your progress.  I just started a reflex deflex bow and learning how to tiller by eye.  Post some more pics please.  Is your upper limb longer or both the same length?

[Wallski]

This looks like a fun project, I really enjoy these posted builds, because I can’t wait to see what happens next.
You’re doing a great job.

[jameswoodmot]

I'll be following your progress.  I just started a reflex deflex bow and learning how to tiller by eye.  Post some more pics please.  Is your upper limb longer or both the same length?

Both limbs are the same length, that was if I have one a bit weak I can make it the top limb

I love elm as a bow wood. I've only used winged and red elm but both impressed me, bows were short, around 60" and recurved. They both took heat treating well. I have another in the works, 60" recurve but this one will have sinew backing. I'm hoping to get it done this winter. Not sure what elm it is. The stave was given to me at the Tenn Classic last spring. It had been seasoned for 15 years.
 Looking forward to seeing yours completed.   

I’ve found it to be pretty reliable. I’ve not worked yew or Osage but from what I’ve read Elm can have similar performance but far less tolerance for poor design or tiller. It seems like
You’ve got to be SUPER nice to the wood or it under performs. I’d like to see your recurves

[jameswoodmot]

So I did that thing, you know where you’re learning something new then you feel like you know what you’re doing and get a bit cocky and make mistakes? Nothing major I just rushed the tillering a bit and worked it too much when the bow was too heavy, should have taken longer to get to brace height. Like a doughnut I like as too impatient to start tillering so I was doing it around working. Ah well, I don’t mind mistakes so much when I know what I’ve done wrong and how to prevent it in the future. Now I can make that same mistake a dozen more times just to make sure it sinks in 😂

[Del the cat]

So I did that thing, you know where you’re learning something new then you feel like you know what you’re doing and get a bit cocky and make mistakes? Nothing major I just rushed the tillering a bit and worked it too much when the bow was too heavy, should have taken longer to get to brace height. Like a doughnut I like as too impatient to start tillering so I was doing it around working. Ah well, I don’t mind mistakes so much when I know what I’ve done wrong and how to prevent it in the future. Now I can make that same mistake a dozen more times just to make sure it sinks in 😂

LOL, yeah, it takes a while for the mistakes to sink in and be properly appreciated 
Del

[jameswoodmot]

So the biggest issue, which I didn’t expect, was that it came out of the heat treatment with basically perfect tiller. I’m used to chasing the tiller back and fourth and struggling to reach my desired draw weight but when I strung this one it probably pulled 60 odd lbs and I just didn’t shave the limbs down enough quickly enough and I just pulled it too much too soon. Lost most of my reflect and the tips are now an inch or so behind the handle and we’re not at full brace height yet. I’ll shoot it in with a 4” brace height and see how it’s holds up just as an experiment but I suspect this one will go on the never to be finished pile.
I understand that tips behind the handle isn’t that big of a deal as far as shooting goes but I’m not making bows to shoot them, I’m making bows because I enjoy making bows and the unbraced profile is really important to me. Plenty of lessons learned (and relearned). 60” is too short!

[simk]

James. the d/r design you are trying is extremly hard to achieve on a selfbow. These reflexed levers always mostly pull straight over time.
With wooden bows its better to have more static reflex towards the outers.
I dont say its impossible but you need the wood and experience. Elm isnt too bad, osage muxh better and a bamboo backing is helpful too. And yes, should be at least 64" ntn. I dont make these anymore. Seems more suitable to a glassbow.
Good luck!