Pitch glue recipe for arrows

[Otoe Bow]

Sorry guys, I know this has been covered several times before, but I can't seem to get the "search function" to... well....function.   

I need a recipe and instructions on pine pitch glue (I think it's 1/3 pitch, 1/3 charcoal, and 1/3 herbivore manure (dried)).  Also, how do you go about mixing it all up, heating to mix, etc, etc. 

Thanks a bunch.

Mike

[Hillbilly]

Mike, the formula you mentioned works well, or substitute beeswax for the doodoo, or just 50/50 pitch/charcoal works. It's not set in stone-if it's a bit too brittle, add more charcoal, wax, fecal fiber, or whatever. If it won't set up and stays too soft, add more pine rosin. I heat the pitch up until it melts, let it heat a while longer to drive out some of the volitile oils, then mix the other stuff in. A coleman stove and metal coffee can works well, and you definitely want to do it outside. Hot pitch reeks, smokes, and burns like napalm.

[Pat B]

Mike, I use 1/3 of each but instead of dried herbivore manure use finely ground charcoal or fine saw dust. The manure works also. The bees wax makes the glue less brittle and the "filler" adds body.   The way I do it is to heat the pitch(cleaned of debris) to melt it then add the wax and charcoal. You will want to start off with brittle, hard pitch to begin with or cook it until the volatile components evaporate. If not the pitch glue will remain sticky until these components evaporate off.  Be careful because it is highly flammable.
    After combining the components put a stick about 1" into the melted glue, stir a around a bit, remove it and dip in cool water and repeat the process. This will build up a glob of pitch on the stick for ease of use. Make up as many stick as you have glue to work with and carry them in your tool box or pack. All you have to do is reheat the glue for use.    Pat

[Otoe Bow]

Thanks guys.  I kind of knew, but wanted to get the take of those that have done it before.  I think I'll try it on a Coleman stove and coffee can out in my shop (or just outside the overhead door).  I originally thought of using a torch, but I see the problems in that now.  I'll keep you posted on the results.

Mike

[JackCrafty]

Personally, I think pitch works fine by itself.  I've added powdered charcoal and sawdust to it but it looks lumpy when cool and I haven't noticed any improvement in the glue....so my formula now is just pitch with a little lamp black (if I want a black looking glue..or paint).  I haven't tried adding dung, though, so maybe that's my problem.

The hardest part of working with pitch glue, for me, is the open time.  The glue cools and hardens really quick.  I use a heat gun set on low (aimed at the glue joint) to maintain the temp while I'm working.

[wally]

Hi
wallynosocks from england here. I've used pine pitch a bit and I'm not saying this is the best method or the only,- but I first melt down the pine resin, (I also use spruce resin), then add hardwood charcoal ground fine, about a third. Then I add bone filings, any old bone, sometimes my dogs lend me some of theirs - when they're not watching them. This has worked very well, not too brittle, but sometimes on sunny days (when we get them in England!) it gets a bit soft. Do any of you use it to hold feathers on or do you use modern glues?
I was at Compton and Cloverdale last year and had a blast. You yanks are great people, very friendly, and I learnt a lot from the bowhunters there. 

[Papa Matt]

Wallynocks, welcome. Do you mean you grind up the bone into powder?

Also, a question to any brother who uses pine pitch. How does a person go about getting it? Do you have to tap into the trunk of the tree or is there a season, like spring, when it just comes oosing out and then you collect it??


Thanks,

Papa Matt

[Pat B]

Matt, I collect pitch from damaged trees. Look for trees that have physical and insect damage. I prefer to use pitch that is hard and brittle. The oozy stuff will stay sticky until the volatile oils evaporate unless you cook it until they evaporate. Do this outside!
   When using the pitch glue recipe I have I drip hot glue into the prefitted slot for the arrow head, heat the head some and set it in place. I give it a minute to set and do a spin test on my finger with the arrow. If it doesn't spin true I reheat and adjust and spin it again. Even later after it has been hafted and wrapped with sinew it can be adjusted by reheating and adjusting.
Wally, Native Americans and other primitives used pitch to hold feathers down. I believe they used it either fresh and somewhat oozy or melted hard pitch. I have not tried that. Lately I have been just tying the front and back of the fletching with sinew.      Pat

[Papa Matt]

Pat B, is there a best season to collect or is it year round? When you heat the hard and brittle pitch, how runny does it get or how runny should you let it get, which is really 2 different questions?

[Otoe Bow]

That's how I collected mine too. We had a bad ice storm last winter with a lot of broken limbs.  I also have some trees with insect damage as well. When I picked it off the trees, it reminded me of sugar candy.  Kind of Hard and Crumbly. 

My trees are ornamental ones that I planted 12-15 years back. To be honest with you, I don't even know what they are.  To us Okies, all evergreens are just "pine" trees or cedars.  

[wally]

Hi
  Yeah grind the bone to powder, you don't need much, probably a large pinch to small lump of resin glue, or until you feel it's right for you. There's only a few rules in primitive, and mostly we learn like our ancestors did, trial and error.
          Collecting it. In England early Autumn, about this time of year, I think you call it fall, there is usually some still running but mostly solidified, and that's when I collect most. It comes from natural lesions or tears in the bark and you will see its trail usually white or brownish running down, sometimes, handily for us, even coagulating in holes.
  Not all trees have it so you have forage and gather where you find it. Last weekend in a copse of about 80 spruce I found 4 bleeders and collecting a handful in about 10 minutes ( careful it sticks to your knives and fingers and it's a bitch to wash off). You can collect it all year, because if nobody has taken it it will still be there in spring usually whiteish and hard, or sometimes it can look just like bark in colour and texture. It smells great and I get as much pleasure digging it out of holes in trees as I do working with. Get small pleasures from where you can. You can even, without hurting the tree, cut the bark in spring and wait for about 6 month. I don't, and really there should be enough damaged trees around without needing to. Happy collecting

[Papa Matt]

Great Wally, thanks for all the info!! I' going out right now to see if I can collect any.

Much appreciated

~~Papa Matt

[Pat B]

Matt, I collect it as I find it. I keep a small Ziploc bag in my hunting pack just for it. If it is too oozy I leave it until later.
   When you heat it up it will become the consistency of thick molasses. I only cook the oozy stuff to evaporate the volatile oils and use heat the hard stuff just to melt it.  
   Generally you have to remove debris(bark, dirt, saw dust from insect damage) from the pitch. I am curious what method ya'll use. I have tried a few methods with some success. I have herd of boiling pitch in water. the pitch and debris will separate and the water poured or cooked off. I haven't tried this method yet but plan to to see if I get better results.   Pat

[madcrow]

Here is my sap store.



I try to wait until it dries and then take it off the tree.  This one starts running from 18 feet up and runs for about ten feet.  The last time I went, I got a two gallon trash can full.  I buy the cheap disposable aluminum pans from the dollar store to melt it in.  I made a wooden frame around some aluminum screen mesh, lay it on the pan and lay a pile of pitch on it and heat it with a heat gun.  It melts and runs down into the pan.  Mesh kitchen strainers work also.  I try to let it cool after a thin layer, then it will shatter like glass and crumble into a coarse powder and I store it in zip lock bags.  Ready to heat and mix then.

[Otoe Bow]

Armed with knowledge, but wanting for time.  Maybe this weekend.  Thanks for the help guys.

Mike