Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: legend on August 27, 2025, 01:51:58 pm
-
Hello all , I apologize if these questions have been asked before . They relate to Flat Bows and American Flat Bows .
Now hopefully I have got this right , the basic difference between the two are that the limbs on a flat bow are very similar to a pyramid bow where they taper straight from the widest part of the fades to the tips in one continuous unbroken line whereas the American flat bow have limbs where the width of the limbs run parallel from the fades roughly a third of their length then begin to taper towards the tips ? Have I got this right ?
OK , so I plan to make either of the above as a full length tip to tip 64" bow using an Ash board or a white ( English) oak board , not sure which is best .
Questions : I have the relevant woodworking skills and bow making knowledge to build this bow but am unsure if it would work putting a slight reflex in the limbs using a heat gun , placing a 4" x 2" block under the handle section and clamping the tips while i Temper the limbs ? Is it ok for this style of bow ?
In peoples expert opinions , which of the two style of flat bows is mainly more efficient ? I am after a 27" / 28" draw at around 35lb draw weight.
any other tips ?
-
the naming differences seem slight. at least to me. there are plenty of examples of primitive bows with non tapering sections befor a taper begins, It would be interesting to see if anyone can point to a true primitive prymid bow.
(Did you ask earlier about the thickness taper on a prymid bow in another thread? there should be none. of course if a bow were to have a non tapering width for a ways out of the handle, it should taper in thickness until it reaches the transition in width taper where the same thickness/prymid begins.)
if 4x2 means the handle will set back 4" behind the tips when you are thru heat tempering, that may be a bit much to for an ash board bow.
you might tiller out the board bow straight to begin and experiment with heat tempering afterwords. I found on my first few bows that trying out (too many) multiple new ideas at the same time left me wondering where I went wrong if things did not work out as hoped.
-
Hi Willie , thanks for your reply . dont know if Im reading you correctly but you said " there should be no thickness taper on a Pyramid bow ) ? I was under the impression that on such a bow the back of the bow had its thickness tapered from the end of the fades to the tips ? Im a little confused now as to my mind a pyramid bow is only another form of flat bow .
-
A pyramid bow does NOT taper in thickness, only in width. No bow tapers on the back.
-
Thanks Jim , I was getting a bit confused .
-
So for my own understanding , if I built a 64" flat bow with the first section of the limbs from the fades being parallel , what sort of length should that section be before it starts to taper to the tips ?
-
I usually go about 12 inches, sometimes mid limb. Pappy
-
Thanks Pappy , it kind of fits in with what Ive read before but just needed confirming , Ive heard midway , just past midway so what you say gives me a rough idea .
-
A real pyramid bow tapers only in width but not in thickness. It is difficult to build a pyramid bow with a stave because of the arched back so my understanding is a stave built pyramid bow would be a semi-pyramid bow. On the American longbows I've built the limbs are parallel out anywhere from 4" to 8" then tapering to the tips. A bow with parallel limbs most of the way out before tapering to the tips is considered an overbuilt bow. Any of these styles make good, durable bows and wood choice for me would determine which way to go.
We all find ways to build bows that work best for us. If it works for you then it is the best. ;D
Are you confusing the back of the bow for the belly. The back of the bow, the side that faces the target should consist of one continuous growth ring. That is where the strength of a wood bow is. The belly, the side that faces the archer can and should be tapered, from the handle to the tip. That is tillering, allowing the limbs to bend evenly and together as you draw the bow.
What wood will you be using for your bow? will it be a stave type selfbow, a board selfbow or a backed bow?
-
heres a link to a board bow build
its a prymid, but if you wanted to keep the limb width parrellel for a ways you just wouldnt cut the thickness so far up towards the handle
longer is better for a first bow. Have you made many board bows before?
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html
-
Hi willie , thanks again . Yes I have made laminate board bows from Hickory and greenheart before and a stave bow but I guess I was getting a little confused between different names for the different styles of bows . Bassically I was wanting to know the difference between semi parallel limbs and the straight tapered limbs which I believe you call pyramid bows .
-
Hi Pat , thanks for that reply and good info . I was just getting a little confused and mistook the back and the belly ( but yeh I know the tillering / scraping must be done on the belly ;) I will be using either an Ash board or English white oak , but will have to loopk at what the wood yard has available . Depending how things go I may back it with Linnen ? As you say we all find our own way of building a bow . Thanks
-
Hello All ,
Been having a slight re think about my flat bow build and these are kind of roughly dimensions I came up with :
Total Bow length ( made from board ) = 65" giving it slightly more for margin of error .
Handle 4" length with 2" fades , Fades being 1 3/4" at widest point .
First 9 1/2" of limbs parallel 1 3/4" wide , then next 19" length gently tapering up to 5/8" wide tips .
Thickest part of limbs at where fades start 1/2" tapering gently to tips ?
Does this sound like reasonably good / ideal dimensions ? Thanks
-
Everything sounds ok to me. You will be starting with a 3/4" board so your handle thickness will be 3/4" at this time then fade from that to about 1/2" to 5/8" at your limbs. You want to be sure your handle is above the plain of the limbs so it stays rigid. If the 3/4" isn't thick enough for your handle you can add another piece to the handle thickness then shape to fit your hand. By making sure your handle area is above the plain of the limb you shouldn't have to worry about the handle area bending thus keeping the added handle riser from popping off.
-
No bow tapers on the back.
...any more - should be added. :)
Rectangular cross-sections with a stiff handles are relatively new inventions (1930:s?). Almost no primitive bows had this at least the ones I know, but semicircle or lenticular cross-section, narrowed AND working handle- Ishi style, sometimes tapering on belly and back.
-
Thankyou Pat , roger and out ! just need to go and pick a decent piece of board now , probably ash or oak .
-
Rectangular cross-sections with a stiff handles are relatively new inventions (1930:s?). Almost no primitive bows had this at least the ones I know, but semicircle or lenticular cross-section, narrowed AND working handle- Ishi style, sometimes tapering on belly and back.
Aksel,
while you are correct that lenticular etc. is more common, one of the earliest bows found in the Americas had a quite retangular crossection and a stffler handle.
third pic down, pamunkey bow on right
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,68908.msg967219.html#msg967219
Thickest part of limbs at where fades start 1/2" tapering gently to tips ?
as mentioned earlier, if your thickness taper is more pronounced under the straight width section and slighter in the tapered width section, this will keep the stresses spread out more evenly.
-
Rectangular cross-sections with a stiff handles are relatively new inventions (1930:s?). Almost no primitive bows had this at least the ones I know, but semicircle or lenticular cross-section, narrowed AND working handle- Ishi style, sometimes tapering on belly and back.
Aksel,
while you are correct that lenticular etc. is more common, one of the earliest bows found in the Americas had a quite retangular crossection and a stffler handle.
third pic down, pamunkey bow on right
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,68908.msg967219.html#msg967219
Thickest part of limbs at where fades start 1/2" tapering gently to tips ?
as mentioned earlier, if your thickness taper is more pronounced under the straight width section and slighter in the tapered width section, this will keep the stresses spread out more evenly.
willie, yes there are exceptions, but I wonder if those bow was made with metal tools? And if so, can it be called primitive? At least I have never seen a bow from European stone age with such a cross-section.
-
A real pyramid bow tapers only in width but not in thickness. It is difficult to build a pyramid bow with a stave because of the arched back so my understanding is a stave built pyramid bow would be a semi-pyramid bow. On the American longbows I've built the limbs are parallel out anywhere from 4" to 8" then tapering to the tips. A bow with parallel limbs most of the way out before tapering to the tips is considered an overbuilt bow. Any of these styles make good, durable bows and wood choice for me would determine which way to go.
We all find ways to build bows that work best for us. If it works for you then it is the best. ;D
Are you confusing the back of the bow for the belly. The back of the bow, the side that faces the target should consist of one continuous growth ring. That is where the strength of a wood bow is. The belly, the side that faces the archer can and should be tapered, from the handle to the tip. That is tillering, allowing the limbs to bend evenly and together as you draw the bow.
What wood will you be using for your bow? will it be a stave type selfbow, a board selfbow or a backed bow?
Without stretching the question out too much when building an American Flat bow / long bow with the parallel limbs from the fades at the dimensions I quoted , ( 64" total length / 1 3/4" at widest section of the fades / 5/8" tips ) there seems to be numerous answers / ideas as to what length the parallel section of the bow should be ! In my mind at my bow length I worked it out roughly at 9 1/2" ? would this be about right or make them longer or shorter , or does it not really matter , or as Pat said too long would be considered overbuilt ? All answers appreciated .
-
or does it not really matter
I say it doesn't really matter. Regardless of what you lay out for the back profile, you tiller it to a bend that matches that profile and the way you get that bend is with the thickness taper on the limb. You just keep removing material until you get the bend you want.
Mark
-
Thanks for that answer Mark , it makes sense .